http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots Here is how they got there. P.s. on the motion thing, Weis lays that put.."many of pur plays will contain pre snap motions", and he goes on to elaborate... P.S. its depressing as you read through it, what this offense could have been since 2009.
Not really. I was incorrect, about the recievong totals, ...but once you remove brown as the slot guy, its still pretty close. Hoever, it was an error on my part to not go back to the year he became the starter. But....I was focusing on theway the offense is currently constructed... And of you look at his career rating, it doesnt become silly, till 2007...he was really good before that, but so was Pennington. (when healthy :rofl 2007 and on he's posting ridiculous ratings. Which was the context, of.the Geno comment. Anyway, disagree with the way I phrased it, bit what they do, suits Smith...day one. Which was the point. You really go a pretty long way to decontextualize the argument, but a mistake is a mistake just the same.
I didn't take anything out of context. You tried, and failed, to make an argument using misinformation and guesswork as your support for that argument. I don't get how me dismantling your points is taking things out of context. Just admit you are biased against Tom Brady because he plays for the Patriots. That would make sense and be the truth.
Oh come on. I hate guys like that. Yeah, most NFL offenses run similar plays, there are only so many combinations of routes you can select for a personnel grouping. And yeah, the E-P offense has far simpler terminology. It's not all about terminology or route trees. It's about the philosophy of the attack. The Pats have used a unique tactic of owning the inside of the hashmarks in an age where receivers outside the hashes are virtually untouchable. Belichick has been looking for the perfect combination of size and speed at twin-TE. Look at their draft history if you think I'm wrong. A few years earlier, his good buddy Nick Saban gave him a free scouting report on Wes Welker on the way out the door to Bama, and BB thought so much of Welker that he forced the Phins to trade WW for a 2. Both of those factors mean that the Pats didn't just happen into the inside-hash attack. It was by design. It had nothing to do with the similarity of plays between offenses or the simplicity of terminology. It was a shift in their philosophy of attack. The rest of the league was gearing up to take advantage of the new rule. The Pats were taking advantage of the declining prevalence of the Tampa-2 defense, with it's speedy shift zone OLBs and 2-deep safeties. And they also took advantage of the premium being paid to man-coverage corners by completely ignoring the outside of the hashmarks. There is more than what the d-bag CHUD-looking expert that wrote that article is really taking into account. You really want to give Weis credit for dropping an E-P system on the Pats, which the Pats kept basically the terminology for? Give that credit to Ron Erhardt and Ray Perkins, because they created the terminology. That is the only real similarity between the two offenses. Other than that, it's light years apart in philosophy of attack. Belichick has defined a new type of offense by seeking the personnel to suit his actual philosophy. You're the one to lay all of Sanchez's failings at the foot of Brian Schottenheimer. Does that mean that the men who conceived the offenses he tried to use are morons? Charlie Weis is the furthest thing from the reason that Tom Brady has become the killer that he is. Pardon the ill-timed pun.
He really has become a cartoon. Thats the only way to put it. Hobbes, ever since you fell into that grill....well, grills, you have morphed into yosemite sam or something. You MIGHT want to go back to the hospital that checked you out that night and press some sort of negligence charges.......Jackie Childs can represent you
I mean if you REALLY believe that the Pats can just plug an average QB into that system and just keep it rolling and turn a 6th rder into a HOF'er then there is no reason to be optimistic because the Pats reign of terror is just going to continue until somebody breaks in and rips up that Charlie Weis playbook
From what MM said today, it seems like he's priming the media & fans for the reality that Sanchez may be on the bench at the start of the season. Either that or he's either trying to motivate Smith or Sanchez... The Jets coaches/FO should take a page from the Bellicheck playbook and come up with one statement that is repeated ad nauseam. Something along the lines of... "We feel lucky to have two great quarterbacks competing for the job".
Matt Cassel took over an 18-1 team that was one flukey play away from having the best season EVER...undefeated until the Super Bowl. The 2007 Patriots were often 21-point favorites, and they were routinely covering spreads that high...or more often than not. Under Brady in 2007, the Patriots scored 315 MORE points than their opposition did. Think about that; it's amazing. 11 teams didn't even score 315 points that year, let alone score that many MORE POINTS than their opponents. Under Cassel in 2008, the Patriots scored 179 fewer points than the year before. They only scored 101 more points than their opponents. Under Cassel, the Patriots did not make the playoffs. That's the ONLY time the Patriots did not make the playoffs in the past decade. It's also the only time the Patriots did not win the division in the past decade. Cassel took over an absolute juggernaut in 2008, a team that should be included in talks of the best team of all time IMO. But without Brady, they didn't even make the playoffs. Yeah, the Pats won 11 games that year, but that goes to prove that sub-par QBs can inspire confidence in some people when put into the right positions. Cassel even went 10-5 as starting QB in 2010, taking the Chiefs to the playoffs, where he promptly shit the bed. He had decent numbers that year and went to the Pro Bowl. All this does not make him a good quarterback...he isn't. Not when you look at the big picture. Tom Brady is one of the best QBs of all time, and he's been a MUCH better quarterback SINCE those Super Bowl wins.
well i have officially not read a single post in the past 2 pages. its disgusting how absurd this whole thread has become at this point. i thought 3 months ago that it couldnt possibly get any worse... and it did. hobbes oh hobbes.
Well, in that case you could go allthe way back to Paul Brown. No, i think Beilichicks desire to master both sides of the ball, using Weiss as a base, coupled with his ability to ...fashion scheme to the qualities of his players. Has led to the product they now have. Schottenheimer doesnt do that. For a young guy, he is mentally inflexible. Rex can do it on the defensive side of the ball. The hope with Morningwood, is that he has a reputation for it. Back to the Weiss point...ive said incessantly, that teams should not change playbooks, when they change personalities. People leave. When you find something that works, you institutionalize it. And then you find people that subscribe to your philosophy to tweak it. Thats what theydid in NE, and its what Pitt does defensively. Institutional knowledge breeds long term success. It guides your draft board, your FA acquisitions, and eliminates a good deal of uncertainty. On the terminology point, they are now looking to move toward Kelleys one word one play..... Lets hope, that our front heavy defense is overwhelming. (which, it seems to me is where Rex is trying to get, back to 85.)
Not at all. As I said, that would be like blaming Joe Montana, because he was lucky to play for Bill Walsh. You misconstrue where I stand. I admire the pats offense, necause of the way its been built, You can search all my previous posts, about how the institutionalization of base knowledge breeds success. The problem withFootball, is teams rely on coordinators to bring in their system. Thats retarded. When a team finds a system that works, you keep the playbook, when the coach leaves, ypu find someone presumably on staff, to keep it...tweak it.,.amd continue. I dont dislike Brady, he runs the offense like a swiss watch, as an AFC east competitor, its irritating, because the Jets emplyed the same play book, then let it go. Look, let say, for instance you are a computer programmer. A company hires you. They dont allow you to rewrite the software platform, they allow you to do whatyou do in the context of the platform. Thats the simplest analogy.
Actually, byz and I are having a rather entertaining, but off topic discussion about the evolution of offense. Byz was kind enuff to link Weiss' playbook. And...if you're really interested in how much Schottenheimer sucks...skip ahead to the pass play section. Heres the clue, for every step in the drop, the WR gets about three steps. When you read his progression, two things happen... The first three guys are in one line of sight, he brings the ball inside, and the last guy, generally resides in a cleared out space.... Basically hos progression, is 3 receivers one look, with a depth adjustment, then a clean dump off.
I think you are severely overrating the importance of a team's offensive system and severely underrating the importance of the QB. I think if it were that easy to just "institutionalize" that system then every team in the league would be trying to hire Charlie Weis, no? Yet he is the coach of an awful college team.
Where are all the SB and playoff wins from Charlie QBs besides Brady? Vinny's credit has always gone to Parcells and Henning, he couldn't help Bledsoe, his college QBs never became anything, I guess he helped Cassell have a good fantasy year in 2010 only to be exposed in the WC rd so where is the success w/o Brady?
:rofl: ....... Though if you look this thread goes pretty mich 24/7. I wake up in the middle of the night, theres someone here...
I agree completely. If system were that important then it would be that OC getting franchise QB money and teams wouldn't put such an emphasis on finding that franchise QB. They would hire Charlie Weis to come install that system and then leave. Unless the idea is that he has some type of under the table type deal not to help out any other NFL team, which doesn't make sense as he already went to KC after. I mean this point isn't really debatable. QB is far more important than OC
You cant underrate the QB. However, your not quite getting to the point. Changing playbooks, with coaches is retarded. When you find a good one, you keep it, and tweak it. And no, not Weis per se...each team has a different philosophy...but changing playbooks, when you change coaches is unecessary friction. As to Weis, himself...he has not yet learned that he is just not a head coach. LeBeau. Tom Moore, and many others learned that at some point. He will have to at some point. Its easier to have a coach come in, and aopt your playbook...and then make his modifications, than asking your entore offense to learn a new playbook every time a coach get hired somewhere else, or fired. 3 different offenses in 5 years? More time spent studying, than perfecting. It is illogical. If you do some research, on Genos Airraid offense, thats what its creators are doing..making it a portable base, that can be installed and tweaked.
