That might make sense if we were only comparing Mark's rookie season to the rest. But we are comparing Mark's 4 year career. Shotty's passing O has ranked higher every year except one without Sanchez. And that was the year Kellen Clemons started for most of the season. Mark's career best ranking in year 3 was only 4 spots higher than Shotty's worst year without him when he had Kellen Clemons at QB! Maybe becasue we didn't call 3 straight running plays with LT? Maybe becasue we threw the ball 3 times and Sanchez only completed one pass? We ran once with Greene and once with LT. I'm not a huge Shotty fan but I don't like making up stuff to blame him instead of Sanchez. I like to call it like it is.
The comparison is again nonsensical. You're trying to create context where there is none. The talent on offense that Schotty had to work with were not equal every year he was the coordinator. Further, even in year 3 Sanchez still wasn't as seasoned as Pennington or Favre at the points that they were at in their careers under Schotty. Further, both quarterbacks (Pennington and Favre) rebounded in a big way after leaving Schottenheimer's grip. Sanchez did not rebound after leaving Schottenheimer, but that was a combination of talent leaving, injuries, Tebow-mania, and more bad coaching in Sparano. Last year was the perfect storm for a down year by a quarterback. In case you forgot Sanchez flattened Buffalo week 1 when the entire offense was healthy. Then again, Sanchez seems to be held to the standard that on an offense that is putrid to begin with, losing your #1 receiver and #1 tight end and not having a running back to use as a dump-off outlet means that he should perform miracles and turn in a playoff caliber season anyway.
You are the one that posted that link with no context. Everything you just said applies to your original argument. You don't think the talent was different for Pennington in 2004 and 2008 compared to 2006 and 2007? You don't think the talent was different with Favre in 2007 and 2009 compared to 2008? The talent excuse doesn't fly regardless since Sanchez had more talent around him in 2009 and 2010 than any other year Shotty has had as an OC. You think Pennington had more talent around him in 06 and 07? You think Favre had more talent around him? You think Sam Bradford had more talent around him? Why did Shotty's passing O rank higher with guys like Kellen Clemens than it did with Sanchez in 2009 and 2010? The seasoned veteran excuse doesn't fly either since Bradford was in his 3rd year as a QB and first year under Shotty and his passing O ranked higher with Bradford than it ever did with Sanchez. Injuries were part of the problem in 2012 but injuries do not make a QB do a double pump fake and throw into triple coverage. Injuries don't make you forget the play you just called. Injuries don't change your accuracy. These are issues that have been around for 4 years. Not just one. You are going to find out real soon that another new OC won't magically transform Sanchez into something he has never been. Shotty wasn't great, but he can't be blamed for all of Mark's problems.
In case you forgot the Jets made it to the AFC championship game in 2009 and 2010. Or is that less important than statistics? Your arguments are invalid because you only give credence to the bad with no acknowledgement of the good. Vernon Gholston was a guy who was nothing but bad. Mark Sanchez is not that guy.
I swear if Rex fucks this up and creates a mess with Geno by making him a read-option QB and starting Sanchez only to make it another circus...I might throw Jets crap out.
You are blaming Shotty for Mark's problems and then go on to say that we made the AFC Championship game in 2009 and 2010 in defense of Mark's 31st and 22nd ranked passing offenses? Those are the worst passing rankings Shotty has ever had except when it ranked 25 with Kellen Clemens in 07. We didn't make the AFC Championship games passing the ball. The #1 and #3 ranked defenses and #1 and #4 ranked rushing offense had a lot to do with it. I've never said Mark Sanchez was nothing but bad. He has done some good things for us. But what he has shown in 4 years is that he needs everything around him to be perfect just to be an average QB. You can blame it all on Shotty but the facts say otherwise.
:lol: :rofl2: How did we win those comeback games in 2010? Yeah surely the defense scored all the points and the running game scored each and every time. Holmes didn't receive a pass from Sanchez, Holmes took the ball from Mangold, ran a slant and won the football game in the Cleveland game. Give me a break. Case and point, a user that uses Statistics far too much and forgets how we won the football game.
Your facts are twisted to your world view. Why do teams need offensive coordinators if the quarterbacks performance is all that matters? Why do teams need good wide receivers if the quarterbacks performance is all that matters? Why did the Broncos just sign Wes Welker? After all, Peyton Manning makes everyone around him better! Surely they don't need to waste cap space on him? Why did Brees not make it in San Diego? Was he a bust? How did we win a Super Bowl in New Orleans? Is he a franchise quarterback? Things are not as black and white as you seem to think it is. It's not a matter of Sanchez sucks or he doesn't. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, along with the fact that the Jets have had shitty offensive coordinators since Rex has been here, along with the fact that the Jets doomed their passing game when they let Braylon Edwards walk in favor of Santonio Holmes, along with the fact that the talent on the offense has deteriorated to the point of no return and the only solutions the Jets could come up with is to bring in Tim Tebow and try out more retarded gadget plays.
At Denver: Sanchez threw two picks, one of which when we were in FG range. The other gave Denver the ball on our 33 and the D held them to 0 points. We rushed for 129 yards and 2 TDs. We got bailed out on a pass interference call at the end. Yep, it was all Sanchez. At Detroit: Detroit all but gave us the game. Sanchez did get us in FG range to tie it and won in OT so I give him credit for that but we never would have had the opportunity if not for a defensive tackle attempting extra points and Detroit committing stupid personal fouls and passing on 3rd down instead of running clock. Houston: This is the one comeback that Mark really deserves all the credit for. At Indy: Sanchez throws for 189 yards 0 TDs and 1 interception which cost us points. The D held the Colts to 16 points. The running game had 169 yards and 2 TDs and we still needed a great kick return so Sanchez could throw it up to Edwards to get in FG range to win it. In all 4 playoff wins Sanchez has never made it to 200 passing yards in a game. He threw for a total of 665 yards in all 4 games.We rushed for 649 yards and 6 TDs in those games and the D allowed an average of 16PPG. Case in point, a poster using statistics which backs up the facts.
My world view? :rofl2: We are talking sports right? Who said the QBs performance is all that matters? Brees played very well in his last 2 seasons in SD before being traded to the Saints. I guess that you forgot that you are the one who is blaming an OC for all of Mark's problems. You posted a link that ignores the difference in talent year to year and things like a QB coming off 2 surgeries or a QB being signed in preseason in a new system for the 1st time in 16 years. The other big problem is the same OC's passing O ranked higher without Sanchez than it did with him. When that is pointed out, you suddenly want to talk about the talent being different. Talk about twisting things. It is even funnier becasue Sanchez had more talent in 2009 and 2010 than Shotty has had at any other time. It is not all on Shotty and the facts prove that. When he is still making the same mistakes under MM you guys will be saying that MM sucks and that his previous success was all Andy Reid.
Did we not throw the football to get us in a winning situation in each of those games? At the end of the game, how did we get that W? Team effort no doubt, but don't discount the fact that in a ball controlled offense, we had to throw the football late to get a TD or into FG range.
You've brought up the link I've posted twice already which is sort of funny, because if you actually read the article in the link it was written during Sanchez's rookie season - meaning everything that happened with Sanchez had not actually happened yet. The fact that you're arguing this makes me believe you're trolling. Further, I don't believe Schotty is responsible for all of Mark's problems. My position is that the Jets management, not only including Schotty but also Sparano, Rex, Tannenbaum, and other members of the FO and coaching staff have systematically failed to develop Sanchez in a way that makes sense and ensures long term growth and success for the franchise. That's a far cry from OMG SCHOTTY RUINED MARK! And at this point, my main concern is that the Jets don't do with Geno Smith what they did with Sanchez. The Jets need to develop Geno Smith. Bringing in Marty Mornhinweg was a great start. Not drafting any wide receivers or tight ends, and counting on a bargain trade at RB is NOT a great way to support Smith. I also believe that the Jets need to continue to help Sanchez work through his problems. Cutting him gains the Jets nothing, helping him along gives the Jets options in the future as far trades and backups are concerned. If the Jets put the effort and the work into Sanchez, they may be rewarded for drafting him yet.
I'm not discounting it. Sanchez made plays that helped win those games. The fact is the passing game isn't THE reason we made the AFC Champ games. Trying to defend a 31st ranked passing O by saying we made the AFC Champ game is ridiculous. Without the other parts of the team playing so well, we wouldn't have stood a chance.
You posted the links in response to someone saying it wasn't all on Shotty. I'm aware that the article was written in 2009. No one in their right mind would right that article today with 4 years of Sanchez to examine. This is the first time you have posted something other than blaming Shotty. I agree with you that management is partly to blame but Sanchez has a lot of issues that can't be blamed on others. I'm not for cutting Sanchez at this point. It serves no purpose. I just don't think he will magically turn into a great QB under a new OC. He is not the future and will most likely be gone next year. This season is going to suck anyway so I would like Smith to get some starting experience so we will be that much further ahead going into next year.
Did you know that if you go to google and type in "jets sanchez sucks" there are 1,990,000 hits as of this moment? What will it be tomorrow?
why would you pass in that situation when you have sanchez at QB who loves to throw picks in the redzone?
In a 1 score game they removed the best QB in the game but nah they didn't rest anyone. Brady couldn't lead a score w/ about 2 mins left? have you seen him against our "great D" the last 2 years? Do you think they went out to win that game? My mistake, I meant 2009. NE 2008 wasn't good and we split, NE 2009 was good and we split, NE 2010 was great and we beat them 2 of 3 w/ Mark Sanchez. PLEASE I am begging you- USE your eyes instead of just looking at stats/rankings! -Miami went from ONE win in 2007 to ELEVEN in 2008, they haven't come close to being over .500 since -NE didn't have TOM BRADY -The best team we played was probably Arizona and they were horrendous on the road that year. That's not the same team that got hot in January We LOST to JAMARCUS RUSSELL and Oakland! We weren't good most of the year yet we still won 9 games b/c the sched was the easiest I have ever seen since I started watching this team. You prove it every day w/ your posts:rofl2: Isn't it amazing how we made 2 title games w/ them, man we must have had a D better than the '85 bears, '00 ravens and '02 Bucs combined to carry such an awful OC and QB.
You want to talk about this again? OK. You give the Jets credit for the win against the Colts when they took all of their starters out for the 2nd half. The whole reason we won that game was because they removed their starters yet you still give us credit for the win. Let's break it down. We were down a score at half time. In the 2nd half we returned a kick for a TD to go up 1 point then Manning immediately comes in and scores to put the Colts up 5. Manning and the starters are out after that. Painter comes into the game and immediately gives us 7. Painter was 4 for 11 with a pick and a fumble returned for a TD. The game changed because they took out their starters. NE only removed Brady on 1 drive before the half and on that one drive Hoyer led them to a FG to tie the game at the half. Brady was on the field for the entire 2nd half that started with the score 13 to 13. He was on the field when Houston outscored them 21 to 7. They took him out when their was only 1:47 left in the game when they were down 7 points. I doubt they wanted to try and score to bring it to OT at that point, but the game had already been decided with Brady on the field. There is no comparison between the two games. You think it is a given that Brady would have led NE to a score with 1:47 left? Hmm, I guess you don't remember our first game against them that year? NE had the ball with 1:48 left in the 4th down 7 and manged only 1 first down before turning it over on downs. NE had 2 opportunities in Denver to take the lead. One with 5:15 when they went 3 and out and one with 2:27 when they turned the ball over. They had nearly a minute to get in FG range against Miami to win the game and turned it over. That is 4 examples of Brady not be able to score to win the game. He wasn't able to throw a single TD against Houston all game but I'm sure he would have been able to with 1:47 left if NE really wanted to win. :lol: The only game winning drive that Brady had that year was week 1 when Buffalo fumbled the kick return and gave NE the ball on the Buffalo 30. How you can give credit to us for the win against the Colts and not give credit to Houston is something only a SuperFan could understand. NE wasn't great in 2008 and they weren't great in 2009. 2008 NE won 11 games and missed out on the playoffs because of a tie breaker. 2009 NE won 10 games and got pummeled in the WC round. I don't know what 2008 NE would have done in the playoffs had they made it, but they couldn't have done any worse than 2009 NE.
