Sorry.Steve Young says hi. Drew Brees too. (in fact Brees became Brees after he got away from???? .....who was that guy...hmmm... And Vinny Testaverde. Coach/system/player.
ROFL, still sticking to that one in a million argument. And Testaverde we've covered as well....the man had 1 good season and 2-3 decent seasons over a 20 year career. Sorry but I want more out of my QB than a small chance of lightening in the bottle for one year. I have higher expectations.
Oh and Brees? rofl dont' even get me started. Twice in his career he's completed less than 60% of his passes, and in one of those years he only had 27 attempts. By age 26, Sanchez's age last season, Brees had 3 seasons over 60% completion rate, 2 of those years over 64%. He'd had 2 seasons over 20 TD's...and that was all BEFORE leaving San Diego.
Yep, so if Steve Young is all you have to hang your hat on, then Im sorry... Steve Young is an anomaly. He is not the rule, and it is not even close to being likely. For every Steve Young, there's 500 players that have failed at that position. Hobbes, if you are counting on Sanchez being that next Steve Young, its not going to happen. Ive said this countless times before, but the absolute BEST case scenario I see is him having an Alex Smith like turn around... thats with elite coaching and talent around him. We currently have neither. Personally, Id rather not wait until the stars align for Sanchez, just so he can turn into a mediocre QB.
Given up on in year FIVE, like the Mighty Sanchez? C'mon, now. You stereotype and pigeonhole the opposition's viewpoint more than anybody. You have the audacity to include Rodgers in that list? He played at a very high level from the beginning of his actual playing. I can go on with your "list" of... what do call them? Late bloomers? How the hell would fans ever have "given up on Brady?" That makes no sense. Guy did not play until the year he won the Super Bowl and did not stop there...he improved consistently to become one of the best ever. You seriously are trying to tie a correlation between giving up on Sanchez in year 5 and Kurt Warner, who won a Super Bowl in his first year as starter and had everything to do about it? Your list has Hall of Famers on it. You may have a case with a few of them of not delivering right away, but for every legitimate name you come up with, how many players can you come up with that the opposite is true? Dozens? A hundred? You are talking about the exception to the rule, not the norm. Teams give up on QBs for a very good reason all the time...they aren't good enough, and cutting ties is justified. What about JaMarcus Russell, for example? They gave up him too, right? Teams DID give up on Plunkett, two of them in fact. Should we wait a decade for Sanchez to kick in like Gannon (who THREE teams gave up on before he saw his real success)? Teams DID give up on a couple of few more names on your list too, but what's that supposed to prove? Sanchez is Sanchez, and we aren't talking about anybody else with unique stories of their own. This is how you suck people back into your pointless argument, which is highly biased...not that you can see that. Do you think that you are capable of being biased? Let me tell you that you are...you see your team do well, turn a backflip, then lose your perspective when you land. People generally need to respond to you because you put them down....they don't know anything, are "average fans," and don't know what they are looking at. Then they get suckered back into it, and feel compelled to make you "understand." I can't imagine what drives you so hard to try to convince them that your opinion is reality. All too often, I don't see you even demonstrate that you understand what the opposing viewpoint even is. You say "all you are looking at is the fantasy stats and boxscores" when people don't even bring them up at all at times. You're biased, which is OK, but open your fucking eyes about it.
You are aptly named, Clown. If you were smart, we wouldn't be having this argument either, whatever said argument even is.
I've already responded to this point when you made it in another thread. Young struggled his first two years in the league. Two years. Not Four. And he didn't even start all of the games for his teams during those two years. Sanchez has already started more than three times as many games as Young had when he got traded. There is a big difference in how well you can assess a QB's development at these points in their careers. The next chance Young got (which, I repeat, was his third season starting) he led the NFL in QB rating, and was near the top in most other measures as well.
One in a million. Ok. How about 1 in 5. You know.,fastest to thirty wins. How about 1 in 2. You know, road playoff wins, 1st two years. Now, since ibe been kind enough to narrow my argument, why dont you, instead of dodging the issue, tell me just how great the caoching,system, and support was....sonce thats the argument?
You are already wrong. Young didnt struggle his first two years in the league. He played 2 years in the USFL. Then...He sucked in Tampa bay, and pray tell, when did he eclipse 60% completion rate? 52,52.53,53? http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm Right, year five, and thats playing for Bill Walsh, with a pretty good cast. Not Brian Schottenheimer and retreads. And Sanchez was far more green when he got to the NfL, which seems to be the crux of your point...lwhich couldnt be more innaccurate. Lets put it this way...prior to Youngs first start in SF..how far was he removed from his last High school start?
Code: Steve Young played in the NFL (i.e. "the league") for two years with the Tampa Bay Bucaneers, during which time he struggled. Then he got traded to the 49ers, sat behind Joe Montana, arguable the best NFL QB in history, and didn't play a full season as a starter again until 1991. That was the year he led the league in QB rating. Using statistics from seasons when he started 3 or less games as a backup is just pathetic and dishonest. Counting those seasons as years that he struggled and disappointed is even more desperate. He was backing up fucking JOE MONTANA. Furthermore, completion percentage is only one of the many criticisms of Sanchez, and far from being the biggest one. He has played four full seasons as a starter, and along with a lousy completion percentage, he also has a lousy YPA, a horrible turnover rating, and most importantly there isn't any other significant area where he has been consistently impressive. And the "how many years removed from high school..." argument had some merit during Sanchez's first couple seasons in the NFL. It was expected that he would struggle a little bit more during his "acclimation period", since he wasn't necessarily the closest thing to "NFL ready" to begin with. Where that argument falls short is that it doesn't even to begin to explain the fact that he has regressed over his career rather than improving. A player three years removed from high school can be expected to struggle in the NFL. When that same player is performing even worse five years removed from high school, though, obviously his inexperience isn't what's holding him back. The bottom line is that if you are looking for players in comparable situations to Sanchez who have completely turned things around it is going to be a challenge finding many, if any. Steve Young definitely isn't one of them. And the few who you will find probably still weren't worth the five year wait and the risk involved for a good, but not great, player (i.e. Testaverde).
I think this is a very good point at the end. If Sanchez does turn it around and become a great QB in this league, it will be the exception not the norm. It's also important for the Jets if Sanchez plays and the Jets win, to evaluate Sanchez on Sanchez's play. We don't want to get stuck in an Alex Smith situation where we can't tell if he's good because of the team or good because he's good. Of course there is always an overlap, but the Jets can't be caught in that situation of not knowing. Right now, Sanchez's contract bought him an extra year here. Time for him to take advantage of it
If Sanchez turns it around at this point it is going to be a blinding miracle. I was in the "Sanchez is going to catch on somewhere and mature" camp until the end of last year. The problem with the argument at this point is that Sanchez absolutely collapsed at the end of last season, again, only he did much worse this time around. Sanchez as of the end of November 2011 was still on pace to be a decent QB, maybe a good one, but then he collapsed and had a miserable December. His 2012 season through November basically looked like that 2011 December collapse with the Bills game at the beginning of the year the big anomaly. Then he collapsed even further last December. If I had to guess his 2013 season is going to look a lot like last December before he gets the hook. The collapse has just been too complete at this point. It's sad but when you suddenly hit a performance chasm the way Sanchez has twice in two years now it generally indicates that things are finished.
I do not think it is fair to gauge Sanchez's performance last year based on his stats. He did look horrible at times, but not all is his fault. If there is any concern, it's because Sanchez played in literally shit offensive schemes, with good-for-nothing QB coach during his formative years. Probably he is ruined beyond redemption at this point.
Yawn, Wins are a poor judge of a QB and you know it. Unless it's an elite QB that literally takes a team on their shoulders...and Sanchez isn't that. Sanchez put up mediocre numbers and rode a defense and running game very to success his first two seasons, and he almost blew the first one with his massive turnovers despite being very limited in the offense that first year...and I mean VERY limited. Sorry, but as pointed out previously Prior to Sanchez arriving SChotty had a top 10 offense in two of the 3 previous years and was on his way to a third when Penny went down and was replaced by a QB providing Sanchez like numbers....which sank the offense. And you've narrowed the argument to only subjective rather than objective readings. I can already hear you 3 weeks in to the season, assuming mark starts, after 3 bad performances claiming it's MM's fault, or the receivers fault, or yadda yadda yadda. The fact is simple, Sanchez has NEVER been a good or even average QB. NEVER.
And to add one more factor, in 4 seasons a Sanchez led team in the regular season has beaten 7 teams with winning records, 4 of those came in 2009....2 in 2010 and 1 in 2012. That's pretty dismal.
QBs are judged on two things. Wins. Scoring. As Zach, who doesnt like Sanchez poited out, its unfair to judge him on2012, and its dishonest to argue otherwise. 2011...ummm, the Jets were 2nd in the NFL in Red Zone wpefficiency, and Sanchez put up 32 scores. And ....at the end of 2011, still had not had a losing season. And stop with the top 10 Schotty lie. Schotty NEVER produced a top 10 offense, even Don pointed that out.
