I don't care about rankings, how many times must we discuss this? In 2008 we faced the easiest sched we have ever ad and we didn't have Tom Brady to worry about. Miami went from 1 win I '07 to 11 in '08- that should tell you something.
:rofl2: Still stuck on Favre. At least you answered one of my questions. Are you paying attention. Clearly not! :lol:
you are all over the place trying to combine Hobbes argument w/ mine. He feels one way, I feel another way. You can worry about meaningless rankings all you want, I worry about wins.
How come you throw out Brad Smith and the WC stuff? That's still part of the running game. It was a vital part of our running game in fact. If you are judging running backs, you take him out and any WC runs. If you are judging the running game, it should be included, as it's part of the running game. Just as you include QB sneaks/rushes when talking about the rushing game as a whole.
You commented on my reply to Hobbes where I was providing passing O rankings under Schottenheimer with and without Sanchez. I'm not combining anything. You involved yourself. Hobbes whole argument is that all of Mark's problems are because of Schottenheimer. I posted rankings which point to that not being the case. It is no coincidence that every other year Schottenheimer had without Mark at QB, his passing O ranked higher than it ever did with Sanchez at QB. It is the driver, not the car. You claim to agree with me, at least about Schottenheimer not being the main problem, but instead of defending Schottenheimer, you blindly jump in and start talking about 1 season of a passing ranking because it includes Favre at QB. :lol: You never cease to entertain me. Thanks for the laughs!
it's not, how is that helping mark w/ play action? the effectiveness of the run game helps keep a D off balance and opens up the apss game. If Brad is coming in w/ the WC they know what he's doing, it doesn't help mark in the apss game. I use the top 2 backs(LT & Greene) since they carried the ball the bulk of the time, they averaged a little under 4.2 YPC which is good not great. When you consider LT was great the first month and bad most of the rest of the year you'll realize our run game wasn't very good or consistent.
When Steve Young calls out Rex and his system, which handcuffs a qb, bcuz it doesn't allow qb growth. However nobody has mentioned this fact. It bothered Rex so much he contacted Steve and Picked his brain. When you are a defensive minded team, from top to bottom and consistently call your self a running team whether its ground and pound or all weather team, it let's the offense know that the coach has little confidence in you. Then you add a OC like Soprano who doesn't have a OC resume! You add a media darling or whore like Tebow, that's a recipe for disaster. Now to make it worse, Sanchez has to try to prove worthy of his draft status and contract, with a team without ANY offensive weapons= lots of forced throws to wrs who are probably not at the rt spot and prob not too open. There are many things wrong since last year, but MM is a upgrade big time and should've been the move made after Schotty. If our offense had a consistent bunch of wrs that were NFL caliber we would be in the playoffs. No matter who wine the qb battle we will do well this year, barring injuries like last year. With Sanchez I think we def make a playoff push and Geno would prob get us close IMO.
It's no coincidence that he won less those other years too. I always defend schottenheimer but I am not defending him to bash Mark. They worked well together, we were really good w/ them together and Mark got much worse a year later w/o him. Since you guys don't count injuries should we look at mark's #s from 2011 to 2012 w/ and w/o Schottenheimer and conclude that's why he was so bad in 2012?
How patient can you be? It's been 4 years. Maybe Mark falls into the exception list and becomes much better this late in his career. But if you the play the odds, this offensive system will make Mark look decent, better than last year, but not great. Now do you stay with decent while building up the team, or do you move on from Mark and try to find great. A good example is Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernik or however you spell that last name. Alex Smith looked better under Harbaugh and a top run game and defense. He looked good and got the job done. The 49ers were a good team. Colin Kap comes in, and the offense becomes much more explosive and dynamic. Frank Gore gets a less loaded box, wide receivers suddenly are making better plays, defense can play with a lead or lean on the offense when they struggle. We need to see Sanchez to fall more into how Colin played than how Smith played. We need him to be a game changing QB for the better, not a QB you hide at times and hope doesn't have to make a difficult throw. That's what Sanchez was in 2009 and 2012. In 2010 and part of 2011 Sanchez had a much more positive impact on the Jets than in 2009 or 2012. In 2009 while the Jets under Sanchez won 8 regualr seaosn games, Sanchez didn't stand out in any of them. In 2010 Sanchez stood out more and got some bounces and made some great plays. He turned into a successful game manager who could make throws when necessary. You couldn't rely on him for a whole game, but you could rely on him for a half or quarter to put up points. In 2011 he went to the next step and really embraced the gun slinger mentality. He was much more embedded into the success and failures of the New York Jets. Unfortunately the 2nd half of 2011 turned into a nightmare for him and brought out bad throws/habits/mistakes without the scoring. He was left to dry by the OC a couple times, but those habits resurfaced and becomes him in 2012.
That's such a misconception about our D. Yes statistically they have been very good but there have been numerous times during the Ryan era when the D needed to make a big stop and couldn't. We could go back to a few games in year 2 like Houston when we were trashing them and the D allowed the Texans back into the game. The Bears game when Cutler shredded the D. The first Steelers game that year when it took an act of God for the D to stop Big Ben that day. How about the AFC Title game when our D gave up big play after big play? We could look at the Tebow game when they folded like a cheap suit on the last drive of the game. A stop there and Tebow probably never becomes a Jet. The 1st Pats game last year when they allowed the Pats to go what 90 yards in 55 seconds right before the half? That's not what I said. I think the number of players who want a change would be very low. There has been a lot of turnover, there are a lot of rookies and you have other guys who have no opinion on the matter. You also have guys who don't think Geno is ready yet and they saw that McElroy was garbage. Now if we had a real backup QB that number would probably be higher but I think most players are smart enough to see that Mark at least today is the best QB on the roster.
So, having much better defenses and running games had nothing to do with the success? It was all Mark's 22nd and 31st ranked passing game? I have no doubt that Tony was part of the problem last year. I'm not going to try and place all of the blame on Tony though. I can see Mark has issues that are on him alone. How is pointing out the facts bashing Mark? Schottenheimer's passing O ranked higher every year without Mark at QB. That is not saying that we were more successful without Mark at QB. It is saying that Schottenheimer is not the main reason for Mark's issues. The argument is about Schottenheimer being the problem. You can't defend Schottenheimer and Mark at the same time in this specific argument.
In 8 full games w/ Smith SF averaged 22.8 PPG and went 6-2 In 7 full games w/ Kaepernick SF averaged 24 PPG and went 5-2 Gore in 8 games w/ Smith: 119-656, 5.5 YPC, 4 TDs Gore in 7 games w/ kaep: 118-455, 3.9 YPC, 3 TDs
^ to add onto that displacedfan, a lot of the things that we have seen from day 1 still reoccur. Thats the problem. He still has below average accuracy, he still makes terrible decisions and he still puts the ball on the ground. Those are 3 HUGE factors for a QB. I wont even get into the ability to read a defense, mechanics and footwork, because that is still in question IMO... The "supporters" want everyone to be patient and let him have another shot... They think they are the only ones who see the circumstance he was put in, but in reality most of that are just excuses. How patient can you be? This is football, in NY. Its "what have you done for me lately?", and Mark has done everything BUT provide hope and instill patience in the fan base. If he had cleaned up some of his poor habbits, and showed that he could protect the ball better, or be more accurate, then sure, maybe lets be patient. But he is still making rookie mistakes in year 4.
YPC is less than important than the fact that the Jets were the only team to run the ball over 500 times in both 2009 (1st in attempts w/607) and 2010 (2nd in attempts with 534). I almost expect the YPC (which still ranked top 10 each year) to dip when you run that much. The Jets knew the importance of hiding Sanchez and putting him in positions where he can throw off play-action. You also can't just eliminate the importance of Smith gaining 300 yards on the ground on over 8 YPC simply because he didn't help Sanchez off play action. His value reflects in the stats. He helped move the football.
Arguably, Geno Smith was asked to do the most out of any college QB last year and made some of the fewest mistakes. He had 6 interceptions on over 500 throws while completing 70% of his throws. Im not sure how little mistakes you could possibly ask for from a college QB if that isnt good enough...
we led in a lot of games and were running out the clock Our primary ballcarriers were LT & Greene, they ran it: LT/Green 404 carries Other primary RBs: Pitt: 377 Bal: 407 Atl: 421 were these teams trying to hide their QBs too? The WC wasn't very effective for us in 2010 by the way. The bottom line is our run game was good, nothing special. This was not 2008 or 2009, we won most of air games through the air.
we will find out by the end of camp if Mark will step up under MM tutelage be patient let it play out.
