Lol NFL.com ranks the Qbs: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000200131/article/ranking-the-nfl-quarterbacks Fair assessment. I just wouldn't put Sanchez at the bottom of this list. I'd put him in Fitz's place.
Hey!....I jumped on the Save Sancho bandwagon weeks ago. I should at least get $20. Wait...did you say superbowls?. As in more than one? Do they have to be with the Jets?
As for the Geno comment, its hard to have bring back moments when your defense lets up 40+ points a game. That WVU defense was horrific. Its was like they were playing flag football and everyone else was playing real football. There's no denying he didnt play as well as he shouldve down the stretch, but he got absolutely no help from the other side of the ball. Sanchez has always had a great defense on the other side of the ball that helped put him in situations that allowed him to have some heroic moments that clearly outweigh the many downs in the eyes of those who still defend him. I wont even get into the Brees argument because thats pointless. Every year its a new player comparison. First it was Brees, then it was Eli and Simms, now its back to Brees. Each time he has only gotten worse. If Sanchez turns into Brees Ill turn my Avatar into "Hobbes and Junc are the most intelligent football minds in the universe; if only I had 1% of their knowledge..." This is only true to an extent. A system can make a passer with a lower completion percentage have a higher percentage if the new system doesnt ask to go down field more, or it is predicated on shorter, more high percentage throws. A system can not make a passer who has trouble hitting a WR in stride more accurate and it can not help his anticipation (or lack their of). Also, if a QB is tripple pump faking to where he is throwing, a new system isnt going to help that decision making. If a QB can not read a defense well, a new system will not really change that. A new system can help reduce the amount of reads, or shorten the field in half like the Eagles did with Vick, but once again, its only to a certain extent. A new system can only cover up a QBs flaws so much. It worked with Vick, because he brought the legs of a runningback. The defense had to account for that threat always, and it allowed MM to cut the field in half and not really hinder the offense.
Fumbles, is just poor technique. Picks otoh, are also partly, a product of where you are asling him to make throws, and how much field you are forcing the defense to defend..But partly...heres what was the CW on Vinny,prior to the 98 season. then
Fumbling is his inability to protect the ball. You don't think they haven't told him to protect the ball? Him throwing INT's are about 90% poor decision making. Like his end zone INT against the Seahawks. He can't consistently hit his receivers in stride, no pocket presence are all on him. I'm sure the coaches are helping him improve on those things but it's just not sticking.
we have had some pretty mediocure offensive coaches and coordinators... but im none of them emphasized throwing the ball to the opposing team on a regular basis
the only way sanchez becomes drew brees is to go out and buy a drew brees costume at halloween and dress up
right. Like MMs. And, you must have skipped the point where I pointed out no one was saying Sanchez would turn into Brees. What I said specifically, is that some talented guys, have taken longer to flourish than others. Amd in terms of sytemically, I pointed out Testaverde, pre 98...and then magically found a better set of circumstances. 98, would seem to suggest that not all interceptions are created equal, mostly due to what is asked of the QB. Amd weve seen that from Schotty, even before 2009. All pretty simple points. And lastly...2011 two coaches. One QB. One Offense...two differing results. With Tom Moore overseeing the Red Zone O. So...to recap, the one time...since being drafted, the guy had a decent coach...he flourished in the toughest part of the field. If Sanchez had a real OC, that could have made him an Above 90 passer...we probably have btb VLTs. Consoder what 21/3 in the zone, says about his performance in the other 80 yards. Under Marty, Sanchez should be better than Testaverde in 98. The throws are about the same, but Sanchez is far more mobile than Testaverde, which should translate to slightly more production that Vinnys ability to get it there on a broken play by Arm alone.
Predicting it right now, if the Jets are stupid enough to start Sanchez, his first throw will be an INT, and I will be there to join in the hail of deafening boos that rain down.
This may just be me, but Tom Moore was just a consultant. He helped with the redzone offense, but lets not make it seem like Schotty didnt coach that part of the field at all. Moore was an off-site consultant. He communicated with Schotty through phone and fax. From Moore himself- "I'm just making observations. Brian runs the show. Brian's done — and is doing — a tremendous job." So stop with throwing around this perception that solely Tom Moore coached the redzone offense, and Schotty only coached between the 20's. Its false. Moore was just an aid that was there for advice. Schotty was still calling the plays, and he was still the one installing the playbook at training camp, meetings and practices. Moore only teamed up with the Jets at the facilities until the latter 3rd of the season, which they bombed. He met with the staff during the lockout and helped them. His job was essentially to just add another pair of intelligent eyes. Yes, Im sure he certainly helped in the Jets redzone offense becoming more efficient, but to make it seem like he was the lone factor is just being ignorant.
A QB's passer rating and TD/INT ratio are almost always going to look better in the red zone because that is where the vast majority of TDs are scored. Other statistics like completion percentage tend to drop in that area of the field. A passer rating of 92 in the red zone is actually very mediocre if you compare it to other teams QBs (http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/quarterback-rating-in-red-zone/2012/). An actual "92-rating" quarterback should easily be in the triple digits in that part of the field, so you can't really say that Tom Moore ever made Sanchez play like one. The fact that the Jets were ranked second in red zone efficiency (TDs scored divided by red zone visits) is a bit more meaningful, but A) that is shared success between the passing and running games, and B) red zone statistics always draw from a small sample size and thus have a lot of randomness. Chad Henne led the second ranked team two years earlier. Alex Smith, Jason Campbell, Vince Young, Josh Freeman, Christian Ponder, and Matt Cassel have all led top-10 teams in red zone efficiency. Things are looking pretty bleak if this is the only indicator of good QB play that you can come up with.
Nah, we wont be that lucky. If that happened, Geno's appearance would be shortly follow. He'll most likely play below average, but not bad enough to where it justifies benching him and we'll lose the game vs the bucs... and then continue to be tortured by his poor play.
If Hobbes is hoping for Sanchez to become testeverde well, he already is. Testeverde had a couple of really good years sprinkled around a lot of very bad years. He had 1 awesome year as a jet, but the rest were pretty average at best. He's a QB who only 3 times in his 21 year career threw substantially more TD's than interceptions, and by substantially I mean at least 30% more TD's than interceptions and frequently threw more Picks than interceptions. But here's the thing, Testeverde was a big arm throw deep QB, you expect that kind of erratic behavior to a degree. Sanchez, for the most part has been a short to medium passer who still throws a lot of picks and has a low completion percentage. Regarding Sanchez's perceived redzone efficiency. As Laxin pointed out Moore was not the OC for the Jets, he was a consultant. Moore did join the Jets more at the last 1/4 of the season, which coincidently saw Sanchez have his worst 4 games of the season. Also regarding the redzone efficiency, I addressed this in another thread in depth. But basically out of Sanchez's 26 TD's last year only 5 came against teams ranked Higher than #16 in pass defense in terms of TD's allowed. Of his 6 TD's between the 10-15 yard lines all but one came against defenses that were ranked #22 or lower. Same story inside the 10. Of his 14 TD's there I think it was around 10 that were against defenses that were ranked #22 or lower, I'd have to go back to that thread to checkt he numbers again. Another consideration at that point is The Jets under Ryan have always been a ground focused ground and pound offense, so you had defenses that were already vulnerable against the pass who were stuffing the box anticipating the Jets to run. It's also worth noting that of Sanchez's 18 Interceptions 6 of them occured deep in the opponents territory, with 3 of them coming inside the 5 yard line. Of course those basically red zone interceptions came by and large against the teams with average to above average pass defenses. Regarding the system making a QB less prone to fumbles and interceptions. The Jets have, by and large, run a system that should project to low interceptions, short passes, quick routes, etc. The OC and the play set the routes and the checkdown recievers. I've watched a lot of film and many of Sanchez's picks were because either the throw was off target, usually behind the reciver or over/underthrown resulting in a pick OR thrown in to double and triple coverage where the checkdown reciever was wide open but Mark didn't recognize that with double or triple coverage someone else is open and didn't go through his progressions. There was one instance, it was either last year or the year before, that stands out in my mind. I don't remember the receivers involved but one was a WR and the other was a RB coming underneath, the WR up top was double covered, the RB who was about 5 yards shorter on route was in the same area but wide open. Both players were clearly in marks line of site, one is double covered the other is wide open for a sure short game and almost certain YAC. Who did he throw to? Yep, the double covered WR resulting in an interception. A good system can help a QB make better decisions, but only by limiting the decisions that a QB has to make. If you have to substantially limit the decisions your QB has to make then you do not have a franchise QB, you have at best a JAG.
I had a good chuckle reading that chart, the year Sanchez was good in the Redzone as proponents are using now, here are the QB's that had better redzone ratings than Sanchez that year. Matt Hassleback was #1, granted he only threw 18 TD's in total that year. Colt McCoy was #2. Colt McCoy, you know the guy who basically is out of a job now. Christian Ponder was #3, yes Christian Ponder. Matt Cassell was #4. He's out of a starting job and only threw 10 TD's in total in 2011.... Andy Dalton was #6. Sanchez was #8. sanchez's ranking of #8 looks good, until you compare it to who's above him. Only two actually good QB's were ranked above him Aaron Rodgers at #5 and Drew Brees at #7. Now granted that list does work off of QB rating which is a stat I really dislike because it can make a medicore QB who doesn't pass a lot look better than they actually are. But really Redzone "clutch" is really a myth. Yes in certain years some players spike in the redzone, but overall their redzone performance is pretty much the same as non redzone performance. A QB who is good outside the redzone will, with statistical variances from year to year, be about as good in the redzone, and vice verse. There are four stats that do change universally for QB's in the Redzone, Completion percentage drop by about 5-6%, interception percentage goes up about 5-6%, YPA drops slightly and TD% quadruples. All these are the results of a shorter field. You will get a substantial variation year to year on the number of TD's just based on A) how many pass attempts are attempted in the redzone, the more pass attempts statiscially the more TD's, AND the more random factor of which passes are caught or incomplete. In short you will get statistical variations based on situations, and a team with a good running game will generally be mroe successful in the Redzone than a team with a bad running game just because defenses have to focus more on the run. But, in the end it is what it is. Source reference for most of the material. http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01/is-red-zone-performance-real.html
Mark Sanchez, responding to Panther's receiver Steve Smith's comment on his poor play, had this to say- "I'm not really sure what a paper bag sandwich is, but I need to throw them better"
