Comparing a full season to a full season would be a fair comparison of two different QBs. The only mistake was saying they he led them to the champ game in 2000 instead of 1999. Big deal! No one ever said Tampa didn't have a great D. That is the whole point of King making it to the NFC Champ game. I harped on your meaningless mistake becasue you constantly do it to others.
That is the premise of his post, a full season where they helped their teams reach title games. It's been debunked. You want to talk '99 postseason vs. '09 or '10 postseason? it's not close. King had a legit great D, Sanchez had a good/very good D- HUGE difference.
The point was illustrating the organizational pooch screw that was 2012. Even comparing simple numbers, like receptions by backfield players...shows how backward Sparano really was. They went from 91 catches by backfield players, to 41. Yes, the change in playcalling was becuause Sanchez miraculously lost his ability to pick up those completions, especially with a decimated WR corps.
His premise was QBs that aren't very good getting carried to title games. Nothing has been debunked. In Mark's 4 playoff wins which brought him to title games, our D and running game have been GREAT! See, I can write in caps too.
it would be one thing if he gave it back. its another thing to play the victim all the time and throw out passive aggressive statements. be aggressive when you need to be, you get much more respect for it.
and the 2 aren't close, look at the pts they led their Os to and the pts allowed by the Ds and you'll see the 2 are nothing alike.
Those that know the game respect me, those that have met me respect me. It doesn't bother me if others respect me or not. If people take the time to read my posts they'll understand. I don't like hurling insults, I try not to but sometimes I get caught up in the nonsense. Don't ever take anything personal.
Our 2009 D was ranked #1 in points allowed in the regular season. Tampa was ranked #3. Our D allowed 14 PPG in the two playoff wins. Take away the garbage time TD San Diego got and our D averaged 10.5 PPG. Tampa averaged 7.5 PPG in thier two playoff games. Sanchez threw for 289 yards 2 TDs and 1 Int in those two playoff wins. King threw for 157 yards 1 TD and 1 Int in his 1 playoff win. I see two guys that were carried in playoff games. Why don't you compare the running games each QB had in those games? It is not even close. But we won't hear that King's running game averaged 1.6 yards per carry in his playoff win and Mark's running game averaged over 4 YPC in both wins. No one said that Sanchez isn't a little better than King was or that the Tampa D wasn't better than ours. Both guys were carried in playoff wins. That is the whole point.
Lmao nobody is denying that 2012 was a colossal failure all around. Would you like to address something that actually matters? Like Sanchez' short accuracy being terrible, a point which you always refuse to address? Or do you ignore that because it gives you no leg to stand on. Answer this: Why would coaches draw up more short throws when he is bad at them? You could just say you don't care how good my arguments are, you are unwilling to consider facts. That would impress me.
1999 TB vs. 2009 NYJ why are you only counting playoff wins and not all playoff games? either way TB comes out on top. pts allowed in playoff wins: NYJ: 14 PPG TB: 6 edge TB PPG in all playoff games: NYJ: 19.3 TB: 8 edge TB take away garbage time TD SD got: pts allowed in playoff wins: NYJ: 11 TB: 6 edge TB pts allowed in all playoff games: NYJ: 17 TB: 8 edge TB Mark in 2 playoff wins: 24-38, 63%, 282 yds, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 92.2 rating, led O to 21 PPG King in playoff win: 15-32, 157 yds, 1 TD, 1 INT, 58.9 rating, led O to 14 pts edge: Sanchez ou run game wasn't consistent, Greene had a few huge runs but we weren't running well most of the SD and Cincy games outside of those huge runs and we didn't have a D completely shutting down an opponent. Let's look at O vs. D's they faced: NYJ: scored 24 vs. Cincy, Cincy allowed 17.3 in reg season. +7 scored 17 vs. SD, SD allowed 19.1 PPG in reg season, -2 scored 17 vs. Indy, Indy allowed 18.3 PPG. -1 Overall +4 TB: scored 14 vs. Wash, wash allowed 21.8, -8 scored 6 vs. AL, SL allowed 13.8, -8 Overall -16 One was carried, one was not. One was able to win ONE playoff game at HOME scoring 14 pts, the other won FOUR ROAD playoff games over 2 postseasons.
You keep proving our point over and over again. Yes ... The Bucs had a great defense, and a solid running game. Nobody is saying they didn't. In fact, it was so strong maybe they could have carried King to the Superbowl the way they dragged him to the NFCCG in 1999. After a year and a half of starts, King was 15-9 and just had a year that was basically identical to Sanchez's 2010 season. They could have kept him but they could see that QB was the glaring weakness on an otherwise SB caliber team ... The same way Sanchez was the glaring weakness on our two AFCCG teams. The difference is, Tampa had enough sense to make the QB change and they won the SB in 2002. THAT'S the point. They moved on from a crappy QB and won. Sanchez is STILL a glaring weakness on the Jets and you want to give him a 5th year to toss in the trash. The rest of us see that 4 years of sub-par play is more than enough.
The point is far from prpven, your example proves MY point since King did very little UNLIKE Sanchez. They had a truly GREAT defense dragging him along, he won ONE playoff game at home against a team the caliber of the '09 Bengals who we whipped on the road. he never led an O to more than 14 pts, mark never led one to less than 17 pts. Mark helped us win 4 ROAD playoff games over TWO seasons- that is very different than what King did. mark is more like a Brad Johnson type than a Shaun king type, a guy better than his #s*(except 2012 when he was as bad as his #s) that you can win big with.
Mark never led the offense to less than 17 points? Really?? You better take another look at those playoff games and then tell me where most of those points came from. They sure as hell didn't come from Sanchez leading us on scoring drives. Don't rewrite history.
That's just nonsense..in 2009 the Jets had the best defense in the league in both yards per game and points allowed..it was a legitimate great defense.
No it wasn't, it was #1 in ranking but in the biggest game of the year what did they do? they allowed 30 pts and blew a double digit lead. In TBs title game in '99 they allowed a better offense w/ a better postseason QB to score just 9 pts. See any difference?
No ... But if you're going to tell me King played so poorly and Sanchez played so well ... And if you're going to use points per game to make your argument, then we better take a look at exactly how those points were scored. Off the top of my head I can tell you ... Greene broke off a 50+ run and Leonard returned and INT to the 5 in the SD game. In the first Colts game we recover a fumble in FG range, moved backwards and kicked a FG. Brad smith set up our second TD in that game with a 50+ yard completion to Cotchery. Sanchez completed a long pass to BE and then was MIA for the last 55 minutes. In the second Colts game, Sanchez led us to zero first half points, and one of the worst Red Zone picks you will ever see. In the second half we took the ball out of his hands and ran in down their throat for two TD's. Just a sampling of plays, but I'm supposed to credit Sanchez for "leading" us to those points? What I'd like to know is, how many times did we receive a kickoff after our disappointing defense gave up a score, and Mark Sanchez led us on a long scoring drive to answer back? I really don't know ... But off the top of my head, I'm going to guess zero.
I was comparing QBs, although, yes my bad on the championship game. I checked the game date, but forgot the season overlapping into next year when factoring it in. Either way, he "led" them to the playoffs as a 23 year old, and was a second round pick for them, so it wasn't like this guy was an UDFA that was going to be an afterthought. What is interesting, is that they didn't start him next year, after a year in which he had almost the exact same stats as Sanchez. My argument is this. Sanchez had the EXACT same stats as King (who then got benched), AND then regressed in his two years to be EVEN WORSE, and yet people still make a big deal about him possibly being benched. You also have to factor in the difference between the league then and now. Overall, the league itself became a more offensive oriented league. A jump of 1.3 points on average points scored per team, 17 more yards per team, and almost all of it comes from the passing game improving. Even TD/INT rate went from 1.3/1.1 to 1.5/1.0. So it was easier league for Sanchez to acquire those stats, and that's not even factoring in how the league became more slanted towards the QB the last two years, both years in which Sanchez regressed. For more breakdowns. In 2010, we were the 18th ranked passing offense according to PFR, but the 6th in terms of rushing. No. 6 in defense overall as well. I think it's fair to assume the defense and rushing were the reasons we were in the playoffs. Onto the playoffs in 2010: Indianapolis: First round, Sanchez goes 18/31, 58%, 0 TD, 1 INT, and 189 Yards. The AVERAGE QB in that year put up, 60.8%, 1.5 TD, 1 INT, and 221 Yards. So Sanchez was BELOW average for that game in accordance to the season. The running game on the other hand: Jets: 38/169/2 TD (4.4 YPC) Average: 27/114/.8 (4.2 YPC) So the rushing in that game was ABOVE average. Now, the defense: The Colts were rated the second best offense in the game, and the 16 points they scored were the SECOND LOWEST AMOUNT of points they scored that entire season. The third lowest passing yards total as well. I say, the defense played well. Not to mention, our running game had two huge run backs by Cromartie that really helped out. The Colts were ranked the 25th worst defense in the league as well, so this wasn't like Sanchez was also going against the Steel Curtain here. So to review, above average running, excellent defense against a prolific offense, good return game, and we have one weakpoint, which was our QB. New England Game: Facing the 26th ranked defense btw Sanchez went 16/25, (64%), 194, 3 TD, 0 INT Average QB, 60%, 221, 1.5 TD, 1 INT Sanchez was above average in this one fore sure, and is his best playoff game by a fair margin. The rushing was right at average mentioned before at 29-120-1. But you also have to factor in the defense. The Patriots were the No. 1 offense in the league, by a fair margin. The 21 points they scored were the third lowest they scored all season. This was the one game where Sanchez was above average, but he didn't carry the rushing nor the defense. It was a team effort win, which was what it took to defeat an excellent team. I'll give credit to Sanchez here in that he was very good in this game. The Steelers game was a complete mess, and I'm not sure how the statistics break down on this one. We were down 24-0, so the rush was abandoned, and the Steelers played a much more safer defense than the usual blitzes they specialized. Even then, Sanchez's stats come out to pretty much right around the average QB, at 60%, 233, 2, O INT. He wasn't special at all, he was just average. So why did we lose? This was the game, the rushing didn't show up. The defense wasn't horrible, as it held Steelers to their 8th lowest point total, so right around the median. But the fact that we lost bangs home the point, that without a great running game, Sanchez just didn't have enough to over-come the decencies. __________________________________________ And all of this? They are from the BEST YEAR for Sanchez. If you go look at stats AFTER this year, it's all downhill. Anyway, my original point was simple. Sanchez didn't lead us anywhere. He played, below average, above average, and then average. Hence, he was average. We won when our defense and rushing stepped up. We lost, when one of those two, didn't perform up to par, because Sanchez was just average. The Bucs realized this with King, and moved to a QB that could be better, albeit much older. And they won. We stuck with Sanchez, and he went backwards. I'm trying to debunk the myth that Sanchez was this amazing player that led us to greatness when he was an average player in the playoffs, and a below average player in the regular season who rode the coat-tails of a very good running game and defense. Once that deteriorated around him, so did his stats in the following years. We've seen two years of regression, and the regression is from a below average QB to a very bad QB. It's not like I hate Sanchez personally. Or even hate the people that still root for him to start. I just don't think it makes sense anymore. We need to move on.
Take a look, he played a major role in helping us score those points. Greene had a couple of long runs, Leonhard didn't return an INT to the 5 but did set us up in great FP BUT sanchez made an incredible play on 3rd down down to find Keller for the TD. If we take credit away from mark for long runs how about that perfect bomb to Braylon at Cincy that Braylon dropped which would have been a TD? Sanchez played a major role for us w/ less talent around him including a D nowhere near as good as TBs D.
