and what I said still applies, so you should try understanding what I wrote. the specific draft positions are irrelevant, but can be split between first half of the round and second half of the round. obviously if you have a late round pick this year, it wouldn't have any more value than an unknown pick next year because it can't get much worse. but if you have a early pick this year, it is worth more than next years pick because you risk that pick being a late round pick. that has nothing to do with impatience. so, yes, this years pick, the 13th, is worth more than next years first round pick which could be a late round pick, especially considering the team is inherently improving by adding Revis. how is that confusing? I will make it easy on you. what if the Bucs offered with the 13th this year, or their first next year, contingent on the first next year being no better than 23rd. would you agree to that because there is no difference in value between the 13th and 23rd because they are both first round picks? by your argument, they would be equal. I read it. there is a huge difference between his value on the field during a game, and his value in a trade. empirical reality has revealed what his value as a trade is.
Jets prorated those 3M from past years, it's the money already paid. So now instead of hitting next year, they hit immediately. It's good actually -- better now, in rebuilding year than in 2014.
Jets paid an $18M option bonus to Revis in 2011. That money has to count against their cap in the end. It was pro-rated from 2011 to 2016 in the original deal which had 3 voidable years at the end. Revis cap figure was always going to be $9M dead next year plus whatever live. The hit accelerates to this year due to the trade. Jets cannot push any part of it to next year with the June 1st rule because that does not apply to trades, just cuts.
Yes, it's different, but conceptually the core is the same. On a very basic level, $100 on 4/25/13 is better to have than $100 on 4/25/14, much the same way the 13th pick in the 2013 draft is better to have than the 13th pick in the 2014 draft. You're starting at the same investment point ($100/13th pick), but doing so a year later, which is a ton of time in the NFL development curve. The variables are the players available in each scenario, but that is so wildly unpredictable this far out (2014 draft) that it's barely worth consideration. I guess...I'm not sure what specifics you're basing your thought process on that there is no differentiation in the value of a 2013 1st round pick and the same pick in 2014. Can you flesh that out a little more?
I think that is his argument. problem is, that isn't the reality of the situation, so that argument is irrelevant. the reality is the 13th pick this year or a blind pick next year. could be higher, could be lower. and because of that, the reason why you take the 13th this year isn't because of impatience or fear of being fired. it has to do with the fact that it is ridiculous to risk next year getting the 20th pick when you could have had the 13th pick this year. on a game show you can take the risk of passing on the $100k payout in hopes of winning that million dollar jackpot later on down the road. when building an NFL team, you don't let it ride and risk crapping out.
Um, what I said had nothing to do with Revis. It was a comment in general on the time value of picks, not on the value of the 13th pick in the 2013 draft vs. an unknown pick in the 2014 draft. If you look at my post and the post I was responding to, that was fairly obvious. I was responding to a general claim that a pick in the draft this year is significantly more valuable than a pick in the draft in the ensuing year, not that I'd rather have Tampa Bay's 2014 pick. There's no reason to think it will be better than 13th. And the pick cannot be a "late round pick". It could be a pick later in the first round, which is vastly different than a late round pick. How is that confusing?
Not to mention the 13 pick actually has value this year. It will turn into a player who takes the field for the Jets and gains a year of experience in the process. No 2014 1st round pick is going to do anything to help the Jets win games this year and the payoff in 2014 will still be less than the payoff for a player taken in 2013 who has a year under his belt. This isn't a hard equation to work out. The only way that a 2014 pick is worth more than the 13 is if that pick can be pegged with near certainty at or very near the top of the draft. In that case the 2014 pick is likely a premium player who is going to be better than whomever the Jets get on 13 this year. Since you can't peg that 2014 pick in that manner it can't possibly be worth as much, let alone more than the 13.
Bingo.....Im just curious...all of the posters that say we got fleeced, exactly what were you looking for? 2 number 1's? A couple of questions: Please tell me the line at the door that were offering anything close to what the Bucs gave us. Please tell me how you would feel a year from now when we got a comp pick for him after he signs with another AFC team. Tell me about how you would feel giving him 15 million plus a year and he comes back being a very solid DB. Everyone is so positive he comes back Revis Island because A.P. did. Let me tell you something...Revis strength was his reaction to receivers...not like A.P. creating the reaction. Huge difference. While he is a bull...Revis will PROBABLY never be that Revis again. He made his living shadowing speedsters. Can he be great? I guess....but 16 million for that position? We lost the greatest Jet of all time? A corner back? We lost the greatest player at his position of all time. The Jets should get on their hands and knees and throw a few million to A.P. of the Vikings because he is the reason we even got a 1 for him. While many of comeback to have very good careers after an injury like that...I can show you many that have not. If he were to comeback and be a guy that holds these great receivers to 5 receptions for 50 yards...is he worth 16 million then? And lets say Revis comes back and is that player...15 million plus with no money guaranteed? Is there anyone here that really believes that contract will hold up? History? And lastly, if the Patriots did not give the recipe on how to eliminate Revis from being a playmaker...a team we play 2 times a year for all of us to see...how can anyone compare him to a great running back...or a great qb. How? Thats the bottom line.
This is a terrible contract for revis. i cant believe he signed it. guaranteed money is worth more. thought he was smarter.
when I said late round pick, it was obvious I was talking about a late first round pick vs early first round pick. and your argument still has no merit. you are claiming that all first round picks are of equal value, regardless where in the round they are. that is the only thing you could be arguing if you are saying a first round this year is worth the same a first round next year, despite the fact that the first round next year could be higher or lower. that is simply false. the first round pick next year could actually end up being worth more or less, depending on how well the team giving up the pick performs (see how all of this applies to any trade scenario, not just the Revis trade, so I am clearly not talking just about the value of the picks in the Revis trade even if that is the subject that it is being addressed?). that is why a defined first round pick this year (regardless of whether it is the Revis trade or not) has more value that a first round pick next year that has yet to be defined. because to turn down a defined pick this year you risk getting a pick later in that same round next year, and picks later in the round are worth less than picks early in the round. how is that confusing?
exactly. beyond that, the argument fails because it is dependent on the position that all picks in the first round are equal, because it doesn't matter whether the first rounder is higher or lower the following year.
I think it reveals Revis main priority -- getting paid. I am not criticizing that, that is his choice whether making the most money possible (or at least satisfying his ego as getting a certain amount) has more value than playing for a certain organization. Revis knows the Bucs aren't likely to honor the entire contract. he will play a couple of years under it, and if he performs he would hold out to renegotiate it and get guaranteed money. at that point the Bucs can either give it to him, or release him with no salary cap hit whatsoever, and Revis can move on to the next team willing to pay him.
You said late round pick, which means something else. But you don't know what my argument is, because you refuse to read my posts. So your response has no merit. Not at all what I said. I disputed the idea that a draft pick this year is necessarily worth more than a draft pick next year. I have implored you to read what I said and you have adamantly refused to do so, continuing to argue against straw men. I did not say I would rather have Tampa Bay's 2014 pick than the 13th overall this month. Errr, I never said all picks in the first round are equal. I was referring to a scenario where you don't know where in the round the pick will fall, and you can have the pick one year or the following year. There's a common school of thought that a pick one year sooner is worth vastly more.
Funny thing is, is that so many here were all for the trade when we were getting a 1,3 and a 5 this year. We get a 1 this year, and a 3 next year, yet everyone is bitching about how we got ripped off... for what? A 5th round pick? Cmon. Id also like to point out, that the Jets were asking GM candidates about how they would handle a Revis trade... Idzik got the job, and he most likely had the best foresight on how to handle this situation out of the many candidates. Its clear the Jets maxed out his value. It hurt a lot that the Bucs were the only team interested, but Idzik did all he could with an absolutely shitty situation. You think he wanted this to be his first priority as a rookie GM? Nope. But he did what he had to do. Now, all we can do is hope that he turns this draft into one of the best in recent years- because we need a very good draft (and thats an understatement).
At the end of the day, we traded Revis for a rookie guard. Again, I just don't see how this is a good deal.
And with all due respect NJB, how do you know that? You could be right...but if the rookie guards ends up being a great starter for the next 10 years and Revis ends up playing out his contract and left after next year? All Im saying is you have a guy, Revis, that has been the most controversial contract guy in the NFL over the past 5 years. We can agree on that. Now is some of that the Jets fault? You could say it could be but I believe all of the great teams over the past 10 to 15 years...the Pats...Steelers...Colts etc, would all have a HUGE problem tying up 15 million plus to a CB. So you have this player..in the final year of his contract..coming off a ACL at a position where reaction is his whole game...and getting ready to make probably his last attempt at huge money. You have teams lining up at the door? to get him. No..you have one team..a team that has huge money to spend who was last against the pass and has at least 4 great receivers in their division who eat them up year in and year out. You have a fan base down there that has killed ownership over the past few years to spend the money. I look at it as a perfect storm. You had only 2 decisions. 1 you resign him or two you trade him...trade him to the only team willing to give up what they did. I guess the question I keep asking those that are upset about this is twofold. 1, what did you want to get? 2, were you more than 50% positive you could get him to sign a contract like the Bucs offered him and be guaranteed you would never have to address this again? No guaranteed money? Guys...again...did the Patriots show us that having the greatest CB of all time (if thats the case) is easy to play away from. For the other posters (laughable) who claim that it was the other Jets that let them down...you spend 15 million on one player who impacts only one player on the opposing team and you are left with a broken defense. The only way it works out over the long term is to sign or draft perfectly cheap. That rarely works...if ever.
Exactly. What's gone on behind closed doors, we just don't know yet or maybe never will with our new tight lipped approach. The whining and bitching will never stop, its what Jets fans do best, some more than others :wink: I'm glad that Revis didn't end up staying in the AFCE.... THAT would have hurt if it were possible. Is this a good deal? the honest answer at the moment is yes, on paper but in reality, we won't know until at least 2014. I like the way our team is now being handled, slowly but progressively. Rex staying IMO is now key as well. My feeling is that Woody wants Rex to focus on running the D first and HC second , with Marty Mornhinweg taking over as OC this should happen. Rex isn't getting fired after the 2013 season unless something drastic changes. 2014 is where I think we enter a watershed year. If Rex gets fired we have 2 holes to fill not one. I'm genuinely excited by the moves being made now, sad to see Revis go, but the team is more important than one player, THIS is what rebuilding is all about, making hard decisions.
