Great post.Furthermore I'm not really sure how Coples gets labled as someone who didn't have production in college. The dude had 15.5 tackles for a loss as primarily an interior defender in what was tabbed as an off year.
Ah yes, the flop who Rex Ryan advised his friend Eric Mangini not to take. Different kind of fish, but one that smells as well. Versus A&M: stoned. Versus 'Bama: stoned. Many if not most of whatever "plays" he made during his so-so (not top 10 pick) year came when was not accounted for and came free (e.g., bowl game vs. Clemson). The guy's light on his feet alright, but also "light" on his feet in a bad way as well when he's confronting blockers. I know many here love him, but no thanks -- we need as close to sure fire plug-in-and-play picks vs. 'wow' athletic potential.
people who hate on kiki need to understand some stuff. first off, he played 3 games against option teams so you're not exactly rushing the passer, you're setting the edges. thats 25% of his games last year. also he got double teamed a lot, i seriously doubt if we draft him he is getting double teamed with mo wilk, coples, and kendrick ellis. i think too many people dwell on the stats with mingo. i think he could end up being exactly what we need. also i've read that he's a great guy and has a good work ethic and i admire that
Doing something vs projecting to do it is like playing in the band vs playing air guitar. I don't believe anybody can make the step up from college to the NFL with the expectation that they will do things in the NFL that they didn't display the ability to do in college. That doesn't mean that some guys won't make the jump and grow in the process but the expectation should be that they won't. Dion Jordan is a legitimate top 10 pick. Barkevious Mingo might well not even be a legitimate 1st round pick. I'd rather have Sam Montgomery in the 2nd than Mingo in the 1st. Montgomery is the guy who actually made 1st Team All-SEC two years running.
He did, but he wasn't a starter, whereas Jones was. I wish I could find the exact snap count, but that's a tough stat to look up. I'd bet that Jones had a lot more snaps than Coples, despite Coples playing in more games. If I remember right, Jones accumulated most of his stats early in the year, but vanished later (and also got hurt), whereas Coples started slow and picked it up big time in the 2nd half of the season when he got more snaps. I guess I'm just tired of the Gholston comparisons. They aren't valid. That was 2008. It's 2013, lets move on already. No reason whatsoever to constantly dwell on our worst pick in 10 years. Why aren't we making Revis comparisons in this same fashion, ya know? It's just as silly.
Same excuse we heard for his lackluster numbers from college. It's too early to say he's injury prone but this is starting to sound familiar.
As far as the Ghost pic, it really was a shit draft.....we didn't really 'love' him, but no other team did either so no one wanted to trade up for him. I DO remember at least a few analysis saying Ghost sucked, had stiff hips, and would NEVER be a good OLB, especially in a 3-4. I wish I could remember who those guys were because those are the guys I be listening to right now.
Jones was not primarily a pass rusher, that isn't a position that exists in New Englands defense, everyone defends the run first. Jones also missed games and was battling injuries much of the year.
Funny thing is if Verhnon Gholston was in THIS years draft with all the glowing reports we had back then, I would bet my left nut at least 50% of us here on TGG would be DEMANDING Idzik trade up to get him. And so it goes for the guys that ARE in this draft.....beware of what you wish for.
Coples was the more productive college player. Jones came out of nowhere and,based on my memory, was being considered a first rounder based on his potential to become a good NFL DE and pass rusher. When NE drafted Jones and the Jets drafted Coples, Coples became a reach, a lazy player, a risk etc while Jones became the second coming of Deacon Jones. If you want to draft production and want a pass rusher, why not Jarvis Jones?? He is a football player who has consistently produced while Mingo is all potential without the production.
I agree. Way too much is made on the combines these days. If Joe Namath, who had serious knee problems coming out of Alabama, were to attend the combines ( if it did exist back then) perhaps the Jets would have never drafted him....never know. Too much emphasis on athleticism and lees about football skills and instinct. What you do on the field should count the most.
Well for one, as a prospect Jones brings nothing BUT production.Production cannot be the be all end all. There is a world of difference between a college O-linemen/blocking scheme & a pro one.Meanwhile his size is extremely questionable for Rex's scheme, doesn't have the frame to add needed weight & was rarely asked to set the edge/drop into coverage in college. Sure maybe he can develop those skills but based on the below average movement skills he demonstrated at his workouts..that's doubtful. He's likely a much better fit in a downhill aggressive scheme like Detroit where he will only be asked to rush upfield & fill gaps. That's not gonna happen in NY. Meanwhile, Mingo certainly has some risk attached to him as well. That said I don't think "No production" is a fair assertion. The guy was one of the most feared pass rushers in the SEC from his Sophomore season onward. He also saw a massive number of double teams & has admitted to multiple media outlets that he was put into alot of "QB Contain" roles which certainly would affect his sack numbers.Watch the tape. He still has one helluva speed rush off the edge. He's also got the long arms/length Rex likes, has the frame to add the needed weight & has shown the ability to drop into coverage. I'm nopt saying he's a superior prospect to Jones..but from a Jets perspective he seems to be alot more of a natural fit.
I hate using Cimini but I do appreciate him listing out the snap counts http : //espn.go. com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/19809/playing-time-analysis-dllb Coples had 505 snaps for 47%. And have to break up the link again because I can't post URLs. Only like 10 posts away.
Gholston was well known as a boom or bust prospect in 2008. The conversations on here were very guarded about the prospect of taking him and generally gloomy that the Jets didn't have an opportunity to trade down, even with the Pats right behind us.
