Florida was really pretty stacked on offense, even for the SEC. 10 out of 11 of the starters made the NFL. How many defenses can we say that about in the SEC that year? so it isn't a surprise to me that many receivers were always able to get a couple of steps on the corner and even Tebow with that erratic arm could get the job done. Especially when Tebow himself was a threat to run. Unfortunately, he''s not going to benefit from that sort of talent gap in the NFL, especuially with 3rd, 4th, and 5th receivers. That is one of the reasons the spread works so well in college, because a lot of times, teams like the Gators have a pretty good gap in talent from the 4th and 5th receiver to the 4th or 5th guy that has to cover them on defense.
It is much harder to cover the run with man to man coverage. This is because the DBs back are turned and not watching the QB. It is much harder to run against zone coverage especially when you have DBs that can support the run.
You're right, for the NFL that's NOT a "tight window." For Tebow it is. Instead of the 6-9 feet of separation his WRs in Gainesville gave him, at the NFL level a WR might get around 2 feet. Yeah, I'm back at work after a 4-day weekend for a bone bruise in my knee. :sad: I'd sworn off talking to both you and JF because we'd just gotten too sidetracked and ugly. But then you went and started making actual points about on-the-field stuff. Just when I thought I was out, you pulled me back in... :rofl:
Go back and watch some Florida tape, and you'll see Tebow hitting an awful lot of passes in "NFL" sized windows. Additionally, watch some tape of Kaepernick, RG3 and Russell this year and you'll see that they also had favorable "larger windows" to throw into. When Tebow entered the NFL, I understood the argument people made about him having to change him throwing motion to hit tighter passing windows. I disagreed because what those people weren't taking into acct is that his running threat affects the way defenses play him. That he wouldn't face the same kind of defenses that other QBs faced, or the same windows. Yes, if you tried to absolutely convert him into being a pocket passer, he'd have to shorten up his motion. That's because defenses would play him the same way they play most other QBs. Ouch. What you'll find with me is that if you want to have a good, factual discussion where we can reasonably disagree in a civilized manner, I'm happy to do so. BUT, if someone wants to come in and spout some nonsense, like CC regularly does, well, let's just say that my "tone" will probably change just a bit
Just out of curiousity, which Florida squad are you talking about here ? so it isn't a surprise to me that many receivers were always able to get a couple of steps on the corner and even Tebow with that erratic arm could get the job done. Especially when Tebow himself was a threat to run. You do know that one of the nicest things about Spread Option is that it allows teams with LESS talent to compete with more talented teams /???
Dennis, a good place to start a discussion is by using actual, verifiable facts, statistics and correct information, not wild a** guesses, presuppositions or incorrect calculations. You'll find that I'm a lot more eager to have a discussion with someone who comes as equally "prepared" to the discussion as I do.
ummmm... Who are we talking about in this forum and which Florida team did he play for? Really, demos... Especially when said defenses have more insurance salesmen and accountants than the Gator offense had. How many of those defenses in the SEC (or anywhere for that matter) had almost their entire squad go to the NFL? Sure do.... Which is why a roster where almost all of them were good enough to go to the NFL were near the top of college football for NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS. An almost NFL roster (even rookie) would destroy defenses that had more car salesmen on their starting lineup than the Gators had on offense. That advantage is long gone in the NFL, which is why Tebow's horrid throwing has caught up with him as he no longer has those big windows for most of his plays. I mean, Christ, he had a lineup with the Pouncey brothers, Percy Harvin, Aaron Hernandez, etc.
Pure info, no opinion given on my part. Michael C. Wright @mikecwright Chi QB coach Matt Cavanaugh said "to be fair to Tim (Tebow), we didn't use it (wildcat package) enough to let him be productive in it." Retweeted by Brian Costello
I want to know which squad you are referring to when you said: "10 out of 11 of the starters made the NFL"
Regardless, Tebow needs to"tighten up" (NOT "change") his throwing motion simply because QBs have less time than they had in college. If he can become consistent with his release point and stance, his accuracy will spike upwards. Tebow IS "fixable" but I think that NFL teams' patience is wearing thin on that. Hopefully Tebow will make headway in his Arizona seclusion...
You're kidding me, right? The 2009 Gators. They 10 of their starters ON OFFENSE went on to the NFL. The SAME squad we have been talking about in this thread when discussing how great he looked in college. I pointed out how he had a pretty stacked roster around him in college, (one that was able to win a championship with Chris Leak too.) So the gators at the time were pretty good all around on offense. Might have SOMETHING to do with Tebow looking so damn good, don't you think? How the HELL could you not figure out who I was talking about? I can't think of a defense they played against where 10 out of 11 were good enough to get to the NFL.
Again showing your ignorance. Tebow played for 4 years at Florida. It's not as if the roster was static all 4 of those years. Players came and went. It's why I asked you to specify which squad you were talking about wrt your claim.
They were pretty stacked through all 4 of his years, which is why they were championship caliber even with Chris Leak starting. but the starters he was surrounded by in 2009 all went to the NFL except or one. That tells me he had LOTS of help with some pretty damn good players, and that might have contributed to his numbers in college that has his groupies drooling.
The 2008 National Championship team had 18 players drafted into the NFL who - at the end of the 2012 season - are still active on various rosters. That's a LOADED team. Most of the other teams that they faced had 1-2 players drafted. A huge imbalance on talent between the Gators and their opponents.
I guess that's why they went undefeated during Tebow's three years as a starter, crushing every opponent by 100 points.
Yeah, I guess none of those guys could have done it without Tebow to inspire them to step up their game... Oh wait, they won a championship with Chris Leak too. Are you really going to tell us that superior talent isn't helpful for Tebow's numbers? Somehow I doubt Tebow would have done anything special playing for Vanderbilt. Or in K State where his clone entering the draft played.
Klein doesn't have the numbers or pedigree to support a suggestion that he is a clone of Tebow. I think the talent level was similar to most UF teams of the past 20 years or so. Tebow won one championship, Leak won one championship, Wuerffel won one champinship (as starters). It's not like they won every year. But yes, the high-talent level and coaching at UF definitely benefitted Tim Tebow, as high-talent level and coaching benefits every championship winning QB. Nobody does it themselves. Tim Tebow, however, was the best player on a team full of talent (in college). I'm not saying he is the best professional footballer of the bunch. Florida had very talented teams, but no more so, IMO, than Alabama recently. I'd argue that the recent Alabama teams are some of the most talented and well-coached teams ever.
Klein didn't have the numbers Tebow did, but he didn't have the rest of the Gators around him either. Put Klein in the Gators during Tebow's time there, you bet he'd have better numbers than he got at K State. This is why stats and numbers by themselves isn't a fair comparison. Tebow is a running QB who can't hit the broad side of a barn. He has demonstrated that in the NFL that his great passes are few and far in between. Klein is a running QB who can't throw very well either. They look very much like the same kind of player. Agreed. But that doesn't change the fact that Tebow had a lot to work with around him. That is going to help his numbers, a LOT. The roster Tebow had to work with in 2009-10 saw 10 out of 11 go to the NFL, and the jury seems to be out on the last guy. Nobody he faced sent that many defenders to the NFL, and if he did, it might have been one team out of however many it was he faced. That is a lot of talent and it very much so helped Tebow's numbers. ...and I'm not saying Tebow wasn't good in college. But very few had more help around him than he did, which I believe can make a very good (college) player look like (as some have argued) "the best college player ever." you pointing out that Alabama had more than the Gators did, doesn't change the fact that Tebow was in a very good situation for himself, which helped inflate his numbers a bit. He didn't get them stats by himself, which is why it is stupid to take those stats and make head to head comparisons with players in inferior programs. Put Klein on the Gators, you think his numbers would be worse than at K State with Percy Harvin to throw to? Hernandez? The Pouncey Brothers blocking? Get real.
