I don't give out stats w/o context. if you put up crappy #s and don't win consistently how can you be great? it's also not black and white, Joe was rarely healthy. I think he would ahve had a great career had he been able to stay healthy but unfortunately it didn't work out and he had a mediocre career overall. The funny thing is they would prefer Matt Moore. I think Moore is a quality backup and i'd like to get him b/c Sanchez would beat him out but as a starter this is a guy who plays well w/ no pressure and is terrible w/ pressure to win. 2009 carolina: w/ season over he plays "great" starts last 5 games, leads them to 4-1 record 79-126, 990 yds, 8 TDs, 1 INT, 104. 9 rating starts opening day 2010 season: starts 5 games, 1-4 record 74-133, 822 yds, 5 TDs, 8 INTs, 61.6 rating w/ Miami in 2011: came in w/ Miami at 0-3 but in 0-0 game at SD where Miami still had chance to salvage season. first 4 games: 68-115, 706 yds, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 65.3 rating. team was 0-4 after falling to 0-7: 142-232, 1791 yds, 15 TDs, 5 INTs, 97.8 rating, team went 6-3
he fails the eye test and his stats are garbage, just saying. for the Sanchez supporters are those few good plays/games sprinkled throughout his career THAT great that you feel like he deserves to even compete for the job next year?
....and the 2 men on the receiving end of %80 of the phenom passes are back with the team....Tone and BrayBray. Now if Keller returns and Kerlly can pick up the Coles/Thomlison receptions, it's SUPERBOWL BABY!!!!!
the issue here junc is that you will do anything you can to back up your argument. and then turn around and say it doesnt matter when someone else uses the same information to refute another one of your arguments. its not interesting or fun to debate with someone who does this. there is no point to it. you will just continously change what you have to say or what the parameters are to fit your argument. and all you ever do is look to argue. you dont bother posting in any of the non hot topic threads, you just find the most volatile situation you can find and dive right in. always on the underdog side and fight fight fight forever. i honestly am a bit scared for you. to put forth so much effort looking up all the stuff you do in all these threads all over the internet must take quite a bit of your time and effort. i honestly think you need help as you have some serious character flaws that if you worked out might make you a much happier person. and spare us from the insanity.
Junc, like every other Jets fan on this message board with objectivity and intellectual honesty, I am basing my assessment of Sanchez on having watched him for 4 seasons now. It just so happens that, as is often the case, his poor play has been reflected (and ultimately verified) in his poor statistical performance. There's reality and then there is everything else.
So if I understand correctly, this is Sanchez's last year on his contract, the 2013-2014 season? So we extended him before Flacco or Matt Ryan got extensions. They are both still on their rookie contracts? Anyways, I guess I think there is a difference between what Sanchez needs to do to help the Jets win games and what Sanchez needs to do to stay on the Jets. If Sanchez becomes an okay game manager, someone we still have to gameplan around, and someone who remains inconsistent, he can still help us win if he doesn't the turn the ball over so much. However that won't be good enough for him to remain a Jet. For him to remain a Jet, we need to marked improvement in almost every facet of his game: Better footwork Better job reading defenses Better understanding of touch on throws Better consistency with his accuracy Better ball security Better use of his scrambling skills Better confidence in himself. It's going to be a lot to turn around, and we won't be able to get our offensive skill level close to where it was it 2010 when he had a good season, so that means he will have to play much smarter and stop forcing stuff. The lack of talent around him will make it tougher to judge him, but there a lot of things he can improve that were his own mistakes this season and not the team's lack of talent. This of course means nothing if he loses the job in TC. Then at that point, I don't see anyway to stay on the Jets if he loses to a Jackson, Moore, or Orton in TC
Keeping in mind in ever year...he was playing for Dan Henning. Not Schotty, Not Sparano (as a play called)
Far too much to overcome. Having better footwork will fix his accuracy, touch on throws, and ultimately his confidence. So one thing can fix a bunch of other things. Understanding of blitz pick-ups more importantly. It's just far too much to overcome in one season. This is practically starting a QB fresh and new over again. He's cooked here, but man I wish he would redeem himself here. Because it's going to hurt a lot of Jet fans if he has a resurgence with another team. It will hurt even MORE if the Jets don't get better soon.
Yeah, like obviously if he stays we all want him to improve and show some promise but it's so much to fix while learning a new offense. If he could have kept his fundamentals while losing the talent around him this year, I could buy the talent around him is the main reason for his decline. But he also regressed fundamentally end of third year, and all of this year. That falls on himself and mistake he can control
No, you guys give me stats w/o context and rankings, I show specific examples. I am a very happy person, thanks for asking. I'm happier knowing this game, I feel for you- someone who spends so much time watching this stuff and truly has no idea what he is watching.
I would like to believe that Sanchez can turn the corner, but at the very least I am doubtful it will happen. As previously noted, throughout his career Sanchez has been statistically a bottom tier QB. What's incredibly disheartening is that in his first 2 years, his stats were pretty lackluster albeit having a solid supporting cast. I am having a hard time believing that someone can be a good QB putting up those kind of stats, all while having ample support. 1. The Jets had a dominant oline, both in pass protection and in the running game. Sanchez, in his first 2 years was one of the least pressured QB's in the league. If a QB puts up the kind of stats that Sanchez did under these conditions: can he be considered a good QB? 2. Having a good running game, for a variety of reasons, should make it easier for a QB. It can slow down an opposing team's pass rush, it makes play action more effective, it creates more manageable coverages etc. If a QB puts up the kind of stats that Sanchez did under these conditions: can he be considered a good QB? 4. They had a solid receiving corps; with complementary players. If a QB puts up the kind of stats that Sanchez did under these conditions: can he be considered a good QB? 3. Their D was elite. They more times than not put the Jets O in a position where Sanchez did not have to get into high scoring shootouts. That should have at the very least limited the amount of risky throws Sanchez had to make. If a QB puts up the kind of stats that Sanchez did under these conditions: can he be considered a good QB? 4. The special teams' play was also pretty solid. In conjunction with the defense, this often times allowed the Jets offense to have favorable field position. If a QB puts up the kind of stats that Sanchez did under these conditions: can he be considered a good QB?
You are persistent as hell, I will give you that. And were it not for your lone stance here, there would be no thread and conversation. Sanchez is that dead on the water, IMO, from a fan perspective. But okay. I'm willing to concede that if.... IF... given the right O-line talent (i.e. a little more time in the pocket) and with that maybe a little better running game... and then maybe a little more maturation of our younger WRs and some help from Edwards... and then perhaps better STs play and tweaking some LBs and Revis is 100% healthy and all... (Oh God help me, I can't believe I'm doing this)... MAYBE he could hold down the fort for 2013 at QB and maybe we could even get to say, 10-6. Maybe. I'm not saying he's the permanent answer because I still can't stand the sight of him. But as you say, the cap hit and the non-availability of anyone else on the horizon makes the ever-such-a-long-shot idea plausable however distasteful to guys like me. The only thing I disagree with is bringing in somebody else as "competition." This guy has had competition and it doesn't seem to motivate him. Or let me rephrase that... competition doesn't seem to work with him because he's as good as he is motivationally. Motivation is not what's holding him back from being a good QB. It's talent. He doesn't have it. You could bring in Peyton Manning and it wouldn't elevate his level of play one iota. So what I'm willing to concede is, we're stuck with this guy and that's the end of the story. So now we have to work with it and see what happens until we can draft Mr. Right. Oh Lord, we are so fucked it's incredible. The more I think about it, the worse it gets.
Here's the short and sweet problem with Saint Chez. In order for him to be good, we have to have a top 10 defense, top 10 running game, excellent special teams, and Pro Bowl WR's. If Sanchez has all of that, he is serviceable. If Sanchez, for some reason, doesn't have an excellent all pro team around him, he sucks dick. That's what happening now. He's being exposed. Of course, nyjunc thinks otherwise. I'm pretty sure he and Hobbes are the only two people defending him. Hell, even Barcs said he sucked.
Lol then what's the point of drafting a QB 5th overall if he needs all of that just to look decent. We could pay a fraction of what Sanchez is making and get Matt Moore to manage the team in that setting. All the more reason why Sanchez is a bust.
if we all agreed what fun would the board be? I don't think he has ever had competition, bring in a vet and make it a real competition. Again, he may be done here but cap concerns kind of force us to keep him so let's try to gte him closer to '10 than '12. we had an up and down D and average run game in 2010 yet we won 11 games mainly b/c of the pass game late in games.
the stat sheet says Matt Moore is pretty good, right? 2009 carolina: w/ season over he plays "great" starts last 5 games, leads them to 4-1 record 79-126, 990 yds, 8 TDs, 1 INT, 104. 9 rating starts opening day 2010 season: starts 5 games, 1-4 record 74-133, 822 yds, 5 TDs, 8 INTs, 61.6 rating w/ Miami in 2011: came in w/ Miami at 0-3 but in 0-0 game at SD where Miami still had chance to salvage season. first 4 games: 68-115, 706 yds, 1 TD, 4 INTs, 65.3 rating. team was 0-4 after falling to 0-7: 142-232, 1791 yds, 15 TDs, 5 INTs, 97.8 rating, team went 6-3 stop just looking at stats, start watching games.
Exactly, there's no point. It's unrealistic to expect all that. I want a QB that, when given an average to slightly below average cast, can elevate teammates instead of bring them down. nyjunc, what do you think about Sanchez's leadership qualities? I think they're horrible.
Without having to go into the weeds of all the obscure statistics being thorn from both sides, I do follow and understand Junc's overarching position. The guy who comes across as a blind Sanchez apologist is Hobbes. What's obvious is that, your definition of modern NFL standards are clearly different than junc's. Regardless of whether or not you or I doubt he is salvageable in a Jets uniform, his cap number to dictate we try. That said, I think getting a guy like MM is the right step in this direction which we are being forced in. Note your subjective opinions of Sanchez drives your argument just like it does Junc's. It's evident that Junc has been "impressed" and "inspired" with Sanchez in the pass. With regards to Sanchez never developing into a "franchise" QB, I personally don't care if does or not as long as he helps us win games rather than help us lose them. I think teams fall into the loser trap of chasing the ever elusive "franchise" QB.
This should be the course of action, I believe. We have no choice. For now, Idzik needs to acquire as much talent as possible with what he has to work with and then surround El Guapo (just as he was surrounded in CA) with enough talent to overcome his clumsiness, lack of field vision, poor timing, bad judgement, laughable shovel passes, overthrows, underthrows, short throws, long throws and contortionist-producing throws. And I disagree with Junc immensely with the "competition" idea. Save your money and resources. This guy doesn't respond to competition. Hell, he was fucking benched... BENCHED... how humiliating is that?... and then brought back in for another chance to redeem himself and stop with the INTs already. Now THAT should be the ulimate motivation for anyone... the fear of failure is the GREATEST motivator on the planet. But did it work? HA! So no, no spending money on "competition" to "motivate" him. Spend all your resources on what Armand is talking about and BUILD THE TEAM. Then when the time comes, you kick this Mexican aguave plant to the side like yesterday's stale bowl of diced avocado salsa.
Correct Many would prefer Moore as he is a quality backup, which is more than you can say for Sanchez right now
