2000/2001 drafts- Ellis, J abe, Pennington, Becht,Coles/S Moss,L Jordan, K Mckenzie, Henderson, Reed Result: Several playoff teams 2006/2007 Drafts & Free agency-Brick,Mangold,Smith(s),Washington/Revis,Harris Acquisitions of: Favre, Pace, Jenkins, Woody, T Jones, T Rich Result: Multiple playoff teams. Arguably the most talented roster Jets have ever fielded.
You for some reason misunderstand my point about the Tebow trade. The point is that the trade had nothing to do with winning and improving the roster, but was done for marketing reasons. Perhaps even political reasons, but I concede that is speculative, even if very plausible. And worse than that it was not done for football reasons, it has been harmful to winning. Tebow's presence on the team has been a distraction. It has prevented the formation of a solid offensive identity. It is I think part of why Sanchez has not improved. It has done nothing to improve the running game, with the Jets still at a 3.6 ypc despite all the homeristic optimism here. But most of all it shows a willingness to make roster moves that have nothing to do with football and winning games. As for Tanny, I never said that there have been no good moves made. Just not enough good moves. The roster clearly, and on this I mean there is no doubt, has less talent than it did three years ago. There are also several huge contract issues facing the team, at the same time the roster looks to be in decline for the near term, with key players getting older and, other than a few bright spots like Kerley and Wilkerson, and hopefully Coples, McKnight and Wilson, not enough in the pipeline to take up the slack. But for me the key piece of evidence against Tanny and the Jet FO was going all off season and into camp and pre-season without having moved Hunter. And on top of that allowing his contract to go up without even attempting to cut a deal with him. Yes, I understand he has been moved, and replaced. But Howard has been at best serviceable in Hunter's replacement, and that is a bit too much depending on luck for my taste. Meanwhile Howard is mediocre too often, and is no "answer" at RT for the medium to long term. Others such as Brad have already gone through the roster, and I generally agree with those realistic assessments. So there is no need to repeat them here. Just not a Tanny fan, when all is said and done. The Jets got pretty lucky in 2009 and 2010, but still did not get to the big game. If the question is how likely they are to get to it after all, I don't see Tanny being the FO guy to make it likely enough to get there. And that is on Woody.
I'm going to say this, not as a Fins fan, but as a football fan in general who follows all the AFC East teams. In 2009, the Jets were loaded. I mean, you guys already had Brick, Mangold and Moore who were all good. And then you picked up Faneca and Woody from the Steelers and Lions...and while they were older, they were still solid veterans who were studs back in the day. You had Thomas Jones and Richardson -- solid. You had Cotchery who was a solid possession receiver and Keller who was the best receiving TE in the draft the preivous year. You then added a young Braylon Edwards, drafted a young stud QB (at that time) and a RB who was a stud at Iowa and looked to be your RB of the future once Jones left. You also had the Dolphins-killer, Leon Washington, who scared the sh!t out of me every time he touched the ball. Then on D, you had Jenkins who was a monster, Revis, young stud Harris, Pace (who you guys outbid the Fins for the previous year when he was a FA from the Cards), Ellis, Pouha, Rhodes (who was good in his early days before turning soft)...and now you hire the Ravens D coordinator and his crazy blitzing style, and he brings Scott and Leonhard along w/ him? I remember thinking..."D*mn...how did the Jets get so stacked!?!" I'll admit that I was impressed with that squad and thought you guys would be a force to be reckoned with for awhile. But starting last year, my feelings about the Jets changed. I realized that Sanchez and Greene aren't all that good and are not the future of the Jets. Then you look at the Jets and see that Washington, Jenkins, Jones, Cotchery, Edwards, Faneca, Ellis, Woody, and Richardson are all gone. And then you see players that are still there but are getting older and aren't as good as they used to be, like Scott and Moore. And guys who I thought might be studs, like Pace and Harris, are just pretty good players...but not studs. And then the guys you've replaced everyone with (Slauson, McKnight, Greene, etc.) just aren't as good as the guys who left. I know you like your safeties now, but they are either old or injury-prone and there's a reason why it was so easy for the Jets to sign them. And now your best player, Revis, has a serious injury and may not even come back next year. So as I see it, the Jets are on the decline....they are not close to the SB. I don't see them improving anytime soon. I think that they'll blow things up within the next year or two. Poor recent drafts, no depth, little cap space, aging roster, and missing on the Sanchez pick will end up killing this regime and I think Johnson will eventually clean house.
So what you're saying is that it takes multiple 1st round picks for the Jets to create any surge in young talent and the team will collapse anyway within a short period of time? 4 1st round picks in 2000 was followed by collapse in 2005 and 2 1st round picks in 2006 was followed by a collapse in 2007?
Actually it was the missed Gholston pick that has killed the regime, albeit in slow motion. The reason Sanchez is back there alone trying to get the offense kick-started is that the Jets have spent lots of 1sts on defense the last 3 years, two of them on the defensive line.
i have to disagree. Missing on the Sanchez pick way more impactful to the team than missing on the Gholston pick. They invested a 1st and a 2nd round pick on him. Tanny pretty much tied his reputation to that pick, as most GM's do when moving up for a QB, and it hasn't panned out. I'm sure the goal was for Sanchez to grow into a team strength, and having a solid QB makes you a perennial contender. That is where the Jets are lacking most, and may be the reason they go rebuild mode again. We'll see how the season unfolds. I'm really hoping Sanchez takes a leap forward, but i'm not expecting it.
If the Jets had not missed on the Gholston pick they could have taken a RB or WR or T or G with one of those late 1sts the last couple of seasons. They would not have had to trade up for Hill because the cupboard was getting bare at WR and they couldn't afford to miss him. The Sanchez pick was the 17, 50 and 3 roleplayers. That's cheap for a potential franchise QB. The Gholston pick at the 6 was actually a greater expenditure of value than what the Jets gave up for Sanchez and Gholston busted off the roster with no value returned at all. The year the Colts took Peyton Manning #1 they took WR's in the 2nd and 3rd rounds behind him on top of already having Marvin Harrison onboard. They already had Marshll Faulk in the backfield behind him. When Faulk became a problem for them they traded him and used the next years #1 pick on Edgerrin James. Their guards were aging and so they took 2 guards in the same draft they took Manning in. That's how you support a franchise QB prospect when failure is going to cripple the franchise.
Even if you think the Jets aren't that close to being a SB team, the better question is this How good is the AFC now and in the near future? Other than Houston it seems like there are no powerhouses right now and for the near future. My point is it may not matter if the Jets are loaded or not, in the AFC at least for this year anybody has a shot. Until we really know what the AFC is going to be going forward its tough to really get a good feel for what the Jets chances are. I will say this the Jets DO have a chance to win the SB. It wouldn't surprise me that much. This team has really rallied, shown grit and have kept themselves in it. A sunday win is key though.
You can't say Sanchez was a 100% miss though. He has done some good things, he has lead the team to four playoff wins, and actually had the team 30 mins from the superbowl in the first one. He has lead the team to multiple come back wins. Now is he perfect ... we all know he is not. Gholston on the otherhand ... what can you say positive about him at all?
But the reason the Sanchez pick is the real killer is b/c you're banking your future on him at the most important position on the field. For a player like Gholston, while he was a high pick that was a bust and that certainly hurts, he played a position where you could just easily let him go and replace him if he didn't produce...like Buffalo did with Maybin and Miami did with Ginn. When it's your QB and you draft him that high, you're paying him a nice sum of cash along with the expectation of him being your franchise guy. If his performance sucks, that sets the whole team back for however long you stick w/ him....and the Jets have stuck w/ him for going on 4 years now (and it could be longer). And to add insult to injury, the Jets gave him a fat contract extension recently. So if Sanchez doesn't improve and become a good QB, that's the move that will set the Jets back the most (along w/ all of Tannebaum's draft pick trades and stripping the team of any depth).
Look what the Maybin and Ginn misses did to Buffalo and Miami though. You cannot miss that badly on a 1st round pick without it having a major impact down the road. Particularly if part of your MO is to trade up a lot meaning there is not a lot of talent on the roster as it is. Do you remember Cameron standing up there at the podium in front of the Miami press, which was questioning the pick from the get-go, and telling them what kind of quality person Ted Ginn Jr was and how the Dolphins had just drafted his family? I mean good lord you can't encapsulate how to ruin a franchise in a paragraph or less any better than that. "We took the guy because he was a great guy..."
Oh yes, I remember it well. I was sitting on my couch watching the draft and on the phone with one of my buddies who's a big college football and Cowboys fan. When Miami made that pick, my friend was like, "WTF!!! Ted Ginn??? He's not even the best WR on Ohio State...Anthony Gonzalez is!" I was pissed off about it and that stupid comment from Cameron. Then again, I wanted Quinn and we all see how he turned out.
Hey, you posed a question & I gave you an answer. And if you're gonna fast forward from 2000 to 2005 as a way of suggesting front office failure...doesn't the front office get credit for ACQUIRING those multiple first round picks you're poo-pooing?
No. Because the FO that acquired them was Bill Parcells GM and Al Groh coach. Terry Bradway took the gift of more 1st round picks than any team has had since then and squandered them in 4 seasons flat.
So i'll agree with you missing on a high first round choice definitely has impact. That includes Gholston. But when you invest a real high first round pick on a QB (or in Jets case, mid first round, 2nd round, and marginal role players), you really need that pick to become a strength of the team. There is much more cash locked up in that position and it is much more impactful to the teams success or failure as a whole. If the player doesnt live up to the high selection at QB, it can literally set a team back 5 years or more (time in grooming the selection, ultimately selecting someone else and grooming them). The Gholston miss, while impactful, is not as impactful as what i described above. If Sanchez doesn't progress this year, and they give him another shot next year (due to guaranteed money they might), they are looking at drafting a round 1 QB again in when 2014? That could put championship aspirations on hold for awhile. We banked a lot on Sanchez, and while its not over, may not work out well for the Jets.
What the heck are U talking about since all that supposed talent U claim has won them NOTHING like in Zero, Nada, Nil? :sad:
I've got news for ya. Only 1 team can win the big one every year. Under YOUR line of thinking, 31 teams don't have any talent & only 1 does?
