D-Mac? who knows to be honest, his story is not written yet but Herchel? only 2 NFL players were ever better athletes than Herschel : Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson
Wow get your mind right I never called you ignorant or meant to infer it., and you keep saying I made up a stat. Stats have numbers. I made a generalization. I didn't try to pass off my opinion as fact. Just cause you don't agree with what I said doesn't mean I tried to pawn it off. And I never asked for proof, I was making fun of the fact he gave my generalization an exact number when most people is a common phrase. So I have no idea why your going off on a tangent completely twisting what im saying. Oh so im supposed to go dig up the name of every extreme tebow supporter and write a thesis proving another generalization. There mustve been a major breakdown in communication cause your taking this to a level where it need not be. I think you guys are just way too defensive about the subject altogether, your acting as if I said Tebow dosnt belong on a field when I actually gave him plenty of compliments Then he applies a number TO AN OPINION. And you chime in and take amy sarcastic remark about him doing a survey and demand I supply statistics to back up the fact I said most people who think should be starting don't see things realistically. Yet that's another opionion of mine My point is if you go into a bar or meet random sports fans most people are extreme either way whether they do or don't see Tebow as a franchise qb. But there's more evidence to support he wont, literally just watch the guy throw. How many real qbs required their OC to tailor a option offense remniscent of the 1930s and some shotgun to succeed? I just think people who riticize him to the extreme are just as wrong but more evidence supports them then the people who recite college numbers disregarding alot of other factors. Or simply say "he just wins". Im NOT lumping you or him in that category im just saying my experiences with people. Again which is an opinion. Im not here to get people to agree, I just say what I see. Im not trying to nor care if I convince you about anything to be honest. And its even more sad cause your one of the reasonable people I've seen supporting the notion that tebow is a long term answer at qb. Anyways hope I made. Myself clear if not oh well.
Coach K, I don't take anything here personally. When the word ignorant is used, people automatically assume it has a pejorative connotation. Most of the time when I use "ignorant", I just mean absent of knowledge of a particular subject or issue. No worries. I know you didn't call me ignorant. I called myself ignorant of who is leaving the message board, and suggested that is what you meant to infer as opposed to that I couldn't "understand" that people were leaving. I still believe you are wrong about whether you guessing "a lot of" people or someone else guessing "90%" of people are two different situations. Neither one of you had factual evidence of the numbers, so for you to call into question his claim based on lack of evidence is hypocritical. Whether you quantified your estimate or not, it is still an estimate without factual evidence to support it. These types of generalizations are common, but you opened the door by questioning the other poster when essentially you did the same thing.
I'm sorry but where the upside with Tebow throwing the ball? Where the potential as a NFL QB? I'm sorry I just don't see it. Help show me?
What the heck, I'll take the time even though you either won't be able to get it, or will refuse to see it. The upside of Tebow throwing the ball is that defenses will largely be expecting the run. This of course determines what defensive scheme they will be in. You know, like cover 0 with safeties up in the box. That leaves receivers 1 on 1 vs CBs/DBs. 1 on 1 against Hill or Holmes = big yardage play. Even if the defense tries to get tricky and run an inverted cover 2, that could be extremely problematic for them. Disagree ? Ask Pittsburgh as that is what they were running on the game ending TD pass in OT. Where is the potential as an NFL QB ? Hmm, I don't know, how about listening to Steve Young on the subject ? http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap1000000061671/A-Football-Life-Tebow-the-quarterback
You nailed it! This is The media trying to stir the pot since Sanchez played well. It pretty pathetic if you ask me!
What did he say that is any different than what anybody else has said? Tebow needs to learn to throw learn to play the position throwing from the pocket. Cordell Stewert made a point I have been saying all along Tebow is to bulky to throw the ball he needs to cut down on the weights. There is a reason Qbs are not built like FBs it is detrimental to the throwing motion. What I did not catch before (my bad) is that his footwork is horrible footwork not throwing motion is the key to accuracy and a quicker release. Although I think his throwing motion is awful it has improved his footwork though is atrocious based on the clips that were shown. I don't get why Tebow wants to be so bulky? I have known plenty of guys that addicted to the weights and the size that to me is the biggest thing that is holding Tebow back. Slim up feet get quicker throw motion becomes more free accuracy and velocity get better.
Kordell Stewart and by extention, you are full of shit in this instance. Tebow's bulk doesn't have anything to do with it. He can lift weights all he wants, strength and bulk DOES NOT make him or his throwing motion, velocity, footwork, release etc. any slower. If he was big because he was fat, maybe, but he's not and his strength doesn't hurt him as a QB at all. He is not hurting his ability to play QB by adding more bulk, unless he concentrates more on lifting and less on his passing/footwork, which I don't think is the case. Just strictly saying he can't play QB because of his bulk is completely wrong. He's not a good NFL quarterback because he is not an accurate passer and cannot make throws that average NFL quarterbacks make (consistently)... He can improve this slightly, but a lot of it is god given as well.He's never going to turn into Aaron Rodgers, no matter how much work he puts in, but it doesn't have anything to do with his size. Also this is the NFL, its about the NOW, teams can't afford to mortgage a half decade or more for him to get more accurate... His throwing motion is slow because of his unorthodox delivery, not because of his size. He's getting the ball out quicker by working to change his delivery but it is appearing to hurt his accuracy...Once again teams can't afford to be patient enough for him to figure it all out (if ever). His strength and size is used as a reason that he should switch positions...It actually helps him because its the reason people say he can play the game. It helps him with the Jets, he wouldn't see the field AT ALL if he was slimmed down. He would just be another average sized QB that can't throw trying to play NFL quarterback.. So, that argument by Stewart and you is completely wrong. There's plenty of slimmed down versions of Tim Tebow - they aren't in the NFL though.
Wow, I agree with most of what you say. Exceptions would be accuracy and consistency as Tebow has improved greatly on both regards. Not "Aaron Rodgers" accurate, but more accurate than he was last year, and definitely more consistent.
Hahaha, think so huh? Just wait until Rex and Tony give Tim the reigns. Edit: Speaking for myself, I just don't get into pissing contests. I'll wait for the proof in the pudding.
Now i agree his size helps him as FB or runner it only hurts him as a passer. Maybe it is just his body type and slimming down would have no effect but bulk hurts or all Qbs would be bulking up. That is just not the case. Strengths and weights are good but there is a reason a Soccer player trains different than a football player or a lineman trains differently than your QB or skilled positions. There is point of limited return and negativity. its the same reason golfers dont look like hulk hogan they do not need to to hit the ball 300+ yards.
A lot of Bronco fans came over here the week after the trade with the sole purpose of trolling Jets fans, they even had a forum up pointing out their trolling and laughing at how upset Jets fans got.
No sir, you are completely wrong again. First off, all QBs DO bulk up. Look at Mark Sanchez this season compared to last year- he hit the weights hard. Look at Tom Brady compared to his rookie year, look at Roethlisberger, etc. This misconception that just because Tebow is built like a TE, it somehow hurts his ability to play QB is wrong. He sucks at QB because he sucks at QB for other reasons, not because of his size. Adding strength and muscle helps EVERY athlete always. If someone tells an athlete different, then they are a jackass and doing their careers a disservice. Soccer players, golfers, other quarterbacks don't look like Hulk Hogan because they think it would somehow hurt their abilities to play their sports - they don't look like him because they CAN'T. It's not that easy to just bulk up that big, and in most cases its not even POSSIBLE. Tebow was not blessed with a golden throwing arm, but he was blessed with a body mass potential that responds greater than most to lifting weights. If Tom Brady COULD be 250+ lbs of solid muscle, he would be. The reality is he probably is, or has at some point reached his natural max muscular size. He's an outstanding QB for countless other reasons not because he's lean. If you want to knock Tebow because he sucks at throwing the football and you think he would make a better fullback, go ahead - I agree. But don't say he's not a good QB because of his size.
I wouldn't take such an absolute position. In my view, there is a point where muscle mass does impact things like throwing ability. That that's talking about huge, body builder type freaks of genetics. Something along the lines of this:
Go do some research I did not say getting stronger was bad i said there is a point of diminishing returns. Just go watch the MMA or boxing getting to bulky is not always good getting to bulky hinders your motion slows down your release getting to bulky makes less quick. No if Tom Brady could be 250 lbs of muscle he would still not be because he trains like a QB not like an NFL lineman. Most Bodybuilders are really not that strong why because being bulky does not always equate to strength. I beg to differ there are plenty of other sports soccer being one of them where being to bulky hurts you QB is another. It affects flexibility, accuracy like I said there is reason no great throwers in any sport are as bulky as Tebow. He needs to slim he has to much mass which slows down his release. Watch the MMA the bulky guys get killed because they are to stiff and slow.
the "bulky" MMA guys get killed because they are too stiff and slow, sure, but that's not because of their bulky muscle mass. if they "slimmed down" they would still be stiff and slow - the only difference they wouldn't have ANYTHING to their advantage and wouldn't bother stepping in the ring. There are no great QBs as bulky as Tebow because A) Preconcieved notions about QB position and size - somewhere along the way a guy with as much body mass potential as a Tim Tebow has a coach that says "wow he'd make a hell of a linebacker, why is he playing QB?" and B) like I touched upon in my earlier post - most people aren't given the potential The myth about losing flexibility by gaining mass is just that, a myth. IDK you seem to have your mind made up though so I'll just stop here.
That guy is probably on steroids, haha so that's not natural anyway. and also, I'm guessing he probably was never good at throwing the ball so all he ever DOES is lift for mass.
