One quarter of preseason football while a new offensive system is still being installed and no game planning is done confirms that we're going to struggle to get first downs this year? This place is really amazing this time of year.
The first quarter on offense and defense showed me we have good conditioning. I saw at least 3 Bengals leave the game. Let's be tough and we can fuck up a lot of teams. Tough, mean, dominating football. You should probably jump though if you are going to base the entire New York Jets season off the 1st quarter of pre season football. I don't think anyone here can save you.
I love Hill because of his potential. But you cant count on much this year at all. So right now we have Homes as our no. 1 ( he aint no number 1). Plu hes already gotten his big pay day and a ring.....he hates our QB, regardless if you choose to believe everythings all peaches again between them. Then we have Kerley who doesnt seem to be wanting to seize his opportunity. And thats it. We are very bad at WR right now. You cant just click your heals and make it better.
To me you seem to be assuming that drafting young talent and signing meaningful free agents, or improving the O-line and adding playmakers are mutually exclusive, but they're not.
I don't disagree too much, I just think what Hill can do immediately is take the top off the defense and provide a deep threat for Sanchez. Do you agree? That alone gives us something we didn't have last year and we lost when Braylon left. That opens things up for the other guys underneath. He has had a hammy. Because Rex said some shit in a press conference doesn't mean much to me. He looked really good in the slot for a rookie last year. And you left out Keller who as much as he sucks at blocking, is a very good receiving threat. You can't click your heals, you have to develop that young drafted talent and that takes time. The offense will probably be a lot better at the end of the season than it is at the beginning of the season.
The Jets really don't have depth issues outside of the WR position which is clearly being rebuilt along w/ essentially the entire offense.Nobody wants to acknowledge the rebuilding notion b/c they lose their ability to bitch and bash the front office. Face it, The jets have had alot of turnover on that side of the ball over the last 2+ years. In the modern salary cap era...that's common occurence. The Jets have wisely decided that rather than just do patchwork..they will do a complete overhaul of offensive personnel. It's gonna take some time.But it's a wise move given a new offensive coordinator/more defined philosophy. The OL bitching is just downright silly.Absolute idiocy really. The Jets depth at the postion is actually very good. Schlauderoff,Ducasse, Howard/Hunter, & possibly Griffin is pretty good. People get lost w/ how some of the camp fodders are performing in garbage time preseason. But most of those guys won't even be on the team. The 8 or 9 guys that will dress on gameday is an upgrade from last season. Do they have some issues on the right side?yes they do. But that's not a DEPTH issue. it's a starting line-up issue. But we'll just continue to see bias, over reactive,overly negative CRAP..being spewed all over this board.
This thread is hilarious. The New York Jets are a solidly above average team in overall talent. You can't have excellent top talent AND great depth. No team does, not one. Other than the offensive skill positions, which are all below-average-to-average, none poor, is there a starting unit on this team you guys actually think is below average? We have an above average offensive line. We have an above average defensive line. We have average-to-above average linebackers, elite special teams with average kicking, and an elite secondary (average safeties plus league's best CB trio yields elite group overall). WR and HB are step in and play positions. It's nice to retain the talent you find, but tons of low round and undrafted players find success at these positions. What team has recently won a super bowl with depth rather than talent? The Giants won with a 1st round QB throwing to a 1st Round WR and a step-in-and-dominate WR. Their elite d-line is loaded with 1st and 2nd rounders. They didn't get where they are because they had a couple more 5th rounders than we did. The Packers won with a 1st Round QB throwing to two 2nd round WRs and a 3rd round TE. We just haven't struck gold in a while.
running back, wide receiver, and QB are all below average. The offensive line as a unit isnt, but Hunter is so bad it kind of offsets it.
really? i didnt realize that the broncos, steelers, texans, ravens, bengals and 49ers were carried into the playoffs last year by their dominant offenses apparently young players dont get better
I have come to realize that rex and tanny together are a bad mix as far as player/personnel decisions. For all the confidence rex has in his coaching im wondering why all our recources are going to defense? If rex is truely great wouldnt it have been wiser to draft for a position of serious need ie RT in the first rather than take coples who is a luxury and not filling greatest need on the defensive side anyway. Another 4 mil on a leron landry when we dont have a number 2 wr or a decent blocking te? I can see bell but they had smith and drafted two other safetys. I mean what the fuck man they talk this shit about ground and pound and dont even give the scheme a chance fielding a team lacking so much oline depth is borders on incompetance. I really feel like tanny has no vision for how to build a roster nor does he appreciate the importance of ol depth. You would have thought he learned after the adrien clem fiasco but evidently the stupid fuck hasnt learned a thing. Last yr was a jail break on the ol and we didnt do a goddamn thing to fix it. Sanchez has been set up to fail and despite my lack of faith in his improvement he deserved better then this.
The great Patriots offense averaged 15.5 points per game in their two superbowl losses to the Giants. I don't think it was the opposing offense that won those games.
there's no guarantee they do either. Everyone saying is look at Eli's career arc and compare it to Sanchez....but I could also say Joey Harrington or Kyle Boller.
I know he was bad, but I just don't think 10.5 sacks allowed for a season is enough to destroy an offense.
So rather than wait and see we're supposed to assume they won't get better? Oh that's right, you saw 1 quarter of preseason football so you already know. cool.
Through 3 years: Drew Brees: Cmp%: 59.4, Yards: 5613, TDs: 29, INTs: 31, R-TDs: 1 Fum-Lost: 6, Sacked: 47 Eli Manning: Cmp%: 54.1, Yards: 8049, TDs: 54, INTs: 44, R-TDs: 1 Fum-Lost: 20, Sacked: 66 Mark Sanchez: Cmp%: 55.3, Yards: 9209, TDs: 55, INTs: 51, R-TDs: 12 Fum-Lost: 23, Sacked: 92 Joey Harrington: Cmp%: 54.2, Yards: 8221, TDs: 48, INTs: 50, R-TDs: 0 Fum-Lost: 11, Sacked: 53 Kyle Boller: Cmp%: 55.6, Yards: 5618, TDs: 31, INTs: 32, R-TDs: 2 Fum-Lost: 17, Sacked: 75 I included Drew Brees because he played under Schotty. Sanchez is the only QB who played in every game of the first three years of his career (minus one) so his numbers will naturally be a bit higher than the rest. While the point about Harrington and Boller is mostly valid, I think what these numbers show is that the early years of any quarterbacks career are not a cakewalk. All of these players had turnover problems (Brees being the best obviously). Out of all them, Sanchez by far has put up the most touchdowns when you factor in rushing touchdowns. Its what happens starting with the fifth season in many cases which separates the boys from the men. Boller fell of his third year and Brees exploded in a big way his fourth year. There are no definites in the NFL but it is way too early to give up on Sanchez. Edited to included sacks.
I dont think so either. But in reality, the offense comes down to Sanchez improving. Its just unfortunate the talent at the Jets skill positions is pretty weak.
My analysis of the situation is that the Jets are stuck in the situation that they're in because of two factors: timing and talent in the FO. The Jets went all-in in the run-up to the new stadium opening. They really needed to sell PSL's and for the first time they were going to be in an open sales competition with the Giants, since both teams needed to fill the new stadium at the same time and PSL's were probably going to shed some season ticket holders in the process. Both teams were going to get their diehard fans who could afford the new price scale. The competition was for new customers and the corporate sales market. The Giants complicated matters really heavily by winning the Super Bowl in 2007 with their young franchise QB proving out. At the same time the Jets optimism with the Tangini regime collapsed suddenly when they both got too big for their britches and the Jets had a bad off-season after making questionable decisions. Tannenbaum didn't have all that much wiggle room at the time because the Jets had gone 4-12 in two of the three previous seasons and the Giants had just won the Super Bowl. A starker contrast could not have been drawn. So Chad Pennington was going to be out the door, since he had been the nominal starting QB in both 2005 and 2007 and the Jets had been bad both years. Changes have to start at the head of the unit that has failed the team and for the 2005 and 2007 Jets that unit was the offense. The Jets made a huge investment in 2008 to try to look competitive with the Giants, bringing in Brett Favre, Alan Faneca and Damien Woody on offense and Kris Jenkins and Calvin Pace on defense at great cost for the season. These moves were necessary at the time to stabilize the offense and find a NT and rush LB for the 3-4, which the Jets had only been running for two years at that point. The moves increased the talent level on the team to the point that 4-12 was unthinkable and you have to think that guaranteeing that the Jets were not terrible again was job one for everybody involved at that point. We look at 2008 and we see the Jets 9-7 as an epic collapse at the end but also as a year that defined where the Jets would likely go in the seasons immediately after that. We forget the amount of money that was injected into the team at that point to achieve the results they got. We forget that all the people brought in were late to post-prime and unlikely to be huge contributors for more than a few years at the outside. 2008 is in a lot of ways the beginning of the smoke and mirrors that the Jets have used since then, sometimes to great effect and sometimes falling flat as a stiff breeze blew the smoke away and flung rocks into the mirrors. So now we get to 2009 and Woody Johnson has made a major investment in cash to bring the Jets up to the point that they were competitive with the Giants again. The problem is that Brett Favre is not coming back to NY. He's not done yet but he's had enough of the Jets. All of the efforts to raise the Jets up before the new stadium opens and the PSL scramble begins are now going to falter because the Jets don't have a QB they can market moving forward and the Giants have Eli Manning. The Jets fire Eric Mangini and go get Rex Ryan. They fire Mangini because that's what happens when you're given the keys to the treasury and still can't make all that gold work to your advantage. They keep Tannenbaum for continuity and because Woody likes him and because there are going to be cap ramifications from all the big contracts signed the previous year. There's no evidence at this point that Tannenbaum is a particularly good GM but the Jets have some talent and seem to be trending upwards a bit - which isn't hard when you've gone 4-12 in two of the last four seasons. Really, they just need a QB to cap it off and they'll be sitting pretty at that point. They've just gone the high-priced veteran route and that didn't pan out and you can't get better than Brett Favre when you go that route so the Jets have to look somewhere else. They want a media friendly star at the position. Somebody who contrasts well with Eli Manning's quiet, almost stolid, demeanor. They go and get Mark Sanchez, trading up for him in the process which makes the move even more splashy. He's a GQ cover guy. he's good with the media and well spoken. He interviews really well. He's likable. He's got that metrosexual thing that Joe Namath had going for him. He's been in a big competitive environment in the PAC-10 at one of the best programs in the country. He's the whole ball of wax and trading up to get him is a no-brainer for a team in a huge media market with a high profile competitor and a new stadium opening. There's only one problem. He's very inexperienced at actually QBing at a high level. He has started just a season and a few games at USC. He had really good players around him at USC with 10 players taken in the NFL draft alongside him that year. In other words he was playing with a stacked deck at USC. In a lot of ways his performance at USC was a mirage, being among the last years that USC was any good and shortly before their great coach left. This is not to say that Mark Sanchez is not a decent player, because he's demonstrated that he's a decent player at this point, but he's not now and never was a guy you could put at QB and win a Super Bowl because you had him. The great year USC had with him at QB was partly because they had him at QB but it was mainly because they had a lot of great players that had accumulated as Pete Carroll got this college coaching and recruiting thing down pat. Sanchez was like an activator for all that talent but we have to remember that the year before given the choice of starting Sanchez or John Booty on another stacked team Carroll chose Booty. Ok, so the Jets have a hotshot new coach in Rex Ryan, and Rex is a really good motivator and a great defensive coach. He's a fun-loving guy, like the polar opposite of "take-no-prisoners" Mangini. He has a veteran team that has been around the block more than once and knows a good thing when they see it, and Rex is freaking great if you're a late to post-prime player and just want to have some fun. I should probably put a footnote in here explaining Bill James theory on what happens when you get a team that was under too much disciplinary pressure and suddenly get a guy they love running the team. To break it down simply and avoid too much side chatter a player's coach often gets very strong results for a year or two out of a veteran team after a disciplinarian has left town. So we have this stacked team, with the trenches especially stacked with four major free agent additions of very good players in their late prime. We have Darrelle Revis coming into his own as a legitimate super star. We have probably the best coach in the NFL to get the most out of all that veteran talent and out of Revis. And we are at 4-6 ten games into the 2009 season because we have a raw rookie at QB. All that talent doesn't matter much because at the key position on the field we have a guy who isn't possibly going to be good enough for another year or two. Given his scant playing experience in college he may take a lot longer than that.
