I don't want to get into a pissing match but if you're going to ignore the fundamental difference between long 20+ or 40+ yard runs and a 4YPC average that adds up to almost the same at the end of the day then you're either being dishonest with yourself and everyone else or you don't understand. I think you probably do understand the difference, so my assumption is that you're being dishonest in your analysis.
I agree with Ajitator 110%. Greene is a great production guy who carry's and protects the football with determination. In games where he has 15 carry's or more he almost always averages over 4yds a carry. We had a very closed minded OC when it came to running the football. Schotty never ran the ball outside of the tackles and the few times he did Greene exploded for BIG games. I would have loved to see a healthy Burress and healthy Edwards blocking on the outside bc those receivers punish corners and Greene would have had everyone chasing him to the goal line. One of my favorite plays we run with Greene, under Schotty regime, was that one step pitch from Sanchez to Greene (almost like a sweep). You can see the play in the video I attached previously against the Bengals. We have run it a few times and it's always BIG gains. Given the opportunities Greene has been dominant outside the tackles. So confusing why schotty never saw this. I believe a healthy Greene is one of the most dominating running backs in the game.
You have to admit that the short gains begin to wear on opposing defense as long as you are picking up first downs and moving the chains. The home run 20+ 40+ gainers should come in the play action pass once the defense starts to cheat. Running the ball is the most important goal for the New York Jets. We have a Super Bowl ready defense now. Move the chains, keep the clock moving and win the game with our defense. Play to our strength, punishing football. Defense, Ground 'N Pound and a side of Play Action pass. A game of field position, time of possession and priority of protecting the football. New York Jets football.
I understand that there's a difference. Regardless of that difference my original point still stands. If green is given the chance ( 15+ carries ) we have a significantly better chance to win that game. Whether its 1 carry for 100 yards and then 14 stuffs,.. or 15 carries for 7 yards is completely irrelevant. So you're either just here to argue with me and everyone here, or you just don't want to accept the original point that I made that Greene is a serviceable back that get's it done. ( even if he doesn't get your flashy 20-40 yard runs ) I think you're probably just here to argue, So my assumption is that you don't care what point i'm trying to make, Just need the reassurance that someone on the internets know's your alive and can use a keyboard.
The consistent gains are a good thing and are important. A back that can get consistent gains and is a threat break the long run at any point is way more of a threat to a defense and has way more impact on a game. Greene is a good back, he's not great. I'd like for McKnight to step up and give us some of the game changing runs we're lacking with Greene.
Maybe, that was a poor statement. I really do think Greene is a good back though. He is not Curtis Martin, not hall of fame caliber and I do agree not quite elite bc of certain abilities he lacks in catching the football and blocking and maybe his side to side movement. I do think this is a guy that can carry the load and when used properly is a sore sight for opposing defenses. We need someone that can give us that setup punch so Greene can clean the clock in the second half. The guy carry's and protects the ball well and if he is picking up 4yds on a gain in the second half consistently that plays to our defensive strategy and you have to keep feeding him the rock. Also, they will cheat they will get lazy and they will bite and when that happens Sanchez has to see it and thats another opportunity to knock a team out with a home run ball. Greene is all production and has been used improperly in Schotty's WTF? offensive system. I have a good feeling about Sparano and Ground 'n pound.
You are the one who threw the comparison up! Not me! I actually agree that he's a good back and the 4 YPC is a good thing. I just think your comparison was ridiculous. Teams usually run more BECAUSE they're winning. People like to say team x wins 90% of the time when they run 20+ times. It's a misnomer. What really happens is that most of the time when you're winning in the 4th quarter you run the ball more often to try and seal the victory.
The bolded part is the classic chicken and egg analysis. Did it ever occur to you that the Jets might have run Greene more against teams that he had more success against, or in games when the Jets were not far behind due to turnovers and the like? Games where the Jets are behind... Do you think in those situations the Jets should have just given it to Greene? Being able to hand the ball off to your RB who is getting about 4 ypc is a luxury you can't afford when you are down two scores with 20 or so minutes left in the game. Nobody does that, no OC does that. OF COURSE when your RB runs it more attempts, that tends to correspond to more wins than losses. What is missing from that obervation is the element of cause and effect. It is not running the ball more that necessarly leads to wins. It is the ABILITY during game situations to run the ball more that CORRESPONDS with more wins. (Geez, no wonder Schotty Haters include so many misinformed people...)
If you are even coming close to suggesting the Jets lost those games because they did not run Greene more, I am speechless.
Come on, man. Every running back has big runs that are factored into the average. It's not like any RB runs for 5 yards every single play. I just think people should avoid using absolutist terminology like "never". People keep saying Greene will NEVER be a top 10 back or anything close. Really? So after 3 years in the league, you already know his ceiling. That's good to know. Maybe the Jets should hire you, since you know more than them.
I don't think it's that ridiculous of an suggestion,.. But, Fill me in. As clearly i've never watched a game of football before as you guys assumed.
???????????????????????????????????????????????????? you retracted statement so nevermind. It seems to me that Shonn has lost a step or half step since those big runs against Cincy and SD. I beleive we have seen his celing already play out. I'm on the "serviceable back" side of the argument.
I have no idea how this post fits into the conversation going on. I also have no idea what you're talking about when you say that the Jets should hire me since I know more than them. We're having a discussion about the effectiveness of Shonn Greene. Try to follow along without pissing yourself whenever someone says something not completely flattering about a Jet player.
You have to agree that we were running the ball great vs the Eagles and then we just stopped running? It makes no sense and this was not when we were losing. First series against the Eagles: 1st and 10 at NYJ 7 S.Greene left tackle to NYJ 9 for 2 yards (A.Jordan). 2nd and 8 at NYJ 9 S.Greene left guard to NYJ 21 for 12 yards (K.Coleman). 1st and 10 at NYJ 21 Direct snap to S.Greene. S.Greene up the middle to NYJ 27 for 6 yards (J.Chaney). 2nd and 4 at NYJ 27 S.Greene up the middle to NYJ 40 for 13 yards (N.Allen). Then we threw a pick and it was all pretty much pass happy after that. Up the middle, up the middle, up the middle. Give the guy a shot on the outside. One pitch on the outside. I don't think he had enough carries and I don't think the play calling on the ground was very good at all; the play calling in general was pretty fucking bad.
This game and the Giants game were all I needed to cement my complete lack of faith in BS ability to be an effective OC in the NFL.
Jets are doomed at RB...DOOMED! How dare Shonn Greene only average 4.2 yards per carry & over 1000 yards rushing playing w/ no passing game to speak of. DOOMED!
