Elway made several mistakes last year. If he had traded Orton to Miami in the offseason instead of asking for way too much (he wanted a 2nd round or 3rd round pick ) then he would have gotten something for him instead of nothing. The second mistake he made was not holding onto the other quarterbacks on their roster a bit longer than they did after signing Peyton Manning. Even if you're positive that you will trade one of them, and even if you personally believe that they're worth nothing (Brady Quinn just walked), some other team might be dumb enough to go after one of them regardless (which proved true). Elway should have held on to some of them and made it less like they were worth nothing and so they really ended up getting nothing in return for any of the quarterbacks that they had spent time and money on in their stable. John Elway must have been a crappy used car salesman. One man's trash is another man's treasure. But don't advertise to the world that you've got nothing but trash and expect something in return.
BULL MANURE. Orton was released to avoid a QB controversy and a split in the locker room when the Donkeys decided to continue starting Tebow. The Bills did the same thing when Fitzpatrick was named the starter over Edwards in 2010. Most experienced HCs don't want the ex-starter causing trouble in the locker room. Tebow was traded because he is a crappy QB. All his intangibles do NOT make up for the fact that he's NOT an NFL caliber passer, and doesn't look likely to ever get better.
Of course I want the Jets to do well, but my head tells me that if "work" means a top ten, even a top 15, Offense, there's pretty much no way the Jets make it to that level. Most likely it will be another year like last year, with a Qb controversy on top of that, but also perhaps, if Coples can make a contribution and the starters avoid injury, the D will be marginally better. 9 wins tops, more likely worse than that.
Orton was also still coming back from injury. I figure Elway thought with all the pressure from Tebots to start him, he had to consider that if Orton were put back in there, the Tebots would crucify him. Elway did Orton a favor getting him out of Denver. Despite the wins, the Broncos still finished the regular season with three losses, and the Pats took them apart in the divisional game. Manning choosing to go to Denver made it easy on Elway, but I think he would have been looking for some other way to get Tebow out of there even if Manning had not provided that easy answer.
I agree with most of that you say but I get tired of the concept that the only reason Orton was pulled was fan pressure. It just didn't happen that way. With Tebow watching - Orton and the Broncos were 4-14. The fans would have been chanting for Webber if they thought he was the next man up. Denver was awful. Tebow crazies didn't invade Investco Field the place has been sold out for years. I also don't recall Orton getting injured last year - he was supposedly injured in Tebow's rookie year when he came in for the last three games. Orton denied he was injured however. A really bad team changed QBs - it happens all the time.
Trading Tim to the Pats. would be a win win to you correct? Get rid of a pooky QB (your opinion) and stick the Pats. with a locker room spliting QB controversy (your opinion). It is important to be careful what you wish for, you might get it.
By "work" = Winning Record and Playoff birth? It will work well enough to win 4-6 games tops. Too many working parts with High Risk but small reward. In order to win 10 games, there has to be only one QB in the game at all times because of the following factors: Limited Practice Time compared to in the past (New CBA) Limited Reps for skill positions to gel with Starting Unit Limited Practice in Full Pads= Less time to establish new Identity new OC scheme Limited Time to practice and effectively install Packages than in 2010 There is only so much time to devote to each aspect of a team, offense and defense. Are there enough reps to go around or enough practice time to devote to everything as far as the Wild Cat? You have to prioritize practice time. What is most important, what is realistic to implement, and one has to be cut out do to lack of time.
You're displaying your ignorance of the Broncos. There was no locker room split and except for about 3 Orton fans, there was zero "Orton/Tebow" controversy anywhere after they went with Tebow. Everyone knew Orton needed to go. But go ahead and try to prove otherwise, if you want. I'll be waiting. Which is what I said Elway believed. You may be right, but for now it's just an opinion, no matter how many times you repeat it.
Blocker I'm not following you on Orton, but I never have. You love him for some reason but outside of basically a small stretch of his career in which he put up some numbers, he's shown to be pretty average/low ceiling as a QB. They were also chucking the ball with no regard because of that shitty defense. I'd take Sanchez over him any day. I also don't believe John Elway was pressured by Tebow fans to play Tebow. If there's anyone in this world in Denver, CO who at this point in his life doesn't need to be influenced by fans its John Elway. They were a shitty team so he figured they need a change and lets see what Tebow can do. - He/We all saw what Tebow can/can't do so naturally they are headed another direction with a QB who should be able to make all the throws - something Tebow can't do which is why he'll be a career backup QB.
Do you guys realize how (relatively) easy the second half of the schedule is this year? If the Jets go 4-4 before the bye week, they will still be in playoff contention.
There's no reason that "certain players cannot be on the field in that situation". Am pretty sure that you are talking about Sanchez, and in his case, all you have to do is line him up on the outside and have him run down the field. Defenses will have to put a defender on him, which takes that defender away from where the play is actually happening. Hence, the numbers are still to the benefit of the offense. The problem with the WC really is that it was limited by the personnel. RB comes in, lines up behind the center to take the snap, hmmmmm, who's should the defense key on ?? With Tebow running the package, it really does change things, especially if Sparano and company had some talks with Urban Meyer when he was here, and if the Jet's version of the WC is actually Meyer's Spread Option. So, defense sees Tebow coming onto the field but Sanchez is out there to. What do they do personnel wise ? In the huddle, the actual play called might depend wholly on whom the defense sent in. But say that we call a "WC" play. Alignment is 4 WRs split out wide, Tebow in the shotgun and Greene is to his right. What does the defense prepare for ?
Plays that will feature both Sanchez and Tebow with Tebow being the full back with that option to pass will be deadly I think Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2
The numbers say Orton was and probably still remains a better Qb than Sanchez, so that's just the Jet homer in you saying otherwise. I have no "love" for him other than that I defend him to the Tebots who want to argue that their perception of his inferiority to Tebow, and how changing Tebow for him, was such a night and day/sole factor or reason for the improvement that only was that. Like this other March 2012 join date post on this thread, talking about the Broncos' record going back to 2010 - but of course not 2009 since that undercuts the argument - ignoring all else going on with the Broncos that year. I find it insulting, as if we as Jet fans are not capable of understanding what happened in Denver. Meaning what REALLY happened, not the Tebot fairy tale version. The bottom line, my agenda, is really rather straightforward. I don't like Tebots who come here and misrepresent what he did. I think the Jets need to focus on giving Sanchez what most likely is going to be his last chance to show he should be the starter. If he fails I am virtually certain Tebow will not be an adequate replacement. That's all it is. As for Orton, we probably won't see much of him in the short run, assuming Romo stays healthy.
It won't just be the Wildcat. We'll see Sanchez and Tebow on the field at the same time. This will make it more difficult to read the play. I agree we shouldn't run WC more than 4 times or so per game, But that doesn't mean we won't use Tebow. The amount of plays per game is highly speculation, it will depend on the effectiveness. If it doesn't work Sparano will use it less. Different strategies for different teams. Also if Sanchez does indeed break out this year, there's no question he'll run the majority of plays.
You saw what they do personnel-wise: The defense clogs the middle passing lanes and otherwise prepares for a run with the deep safety back. Tebow can't make the sideline throws that good NFL QBs can make. So the defense doesn't have to worry about the outside /outside deep throws. Clog the short passing area, particularly the short/middle. Have a smart safety back in case of a trick, deep middle pass and otherwise play it as if it was a run. (See second half of 2011 NFL season - Bills, Chiefs, Patriots, etc games) For the Jets to use Tebow right, they must realize they aren't going to trick the NFL defenses with him. This is the Modern Day NFL people don't get "tricked" for long. Use him as they used to use Brad Smith - line up and run the F*** thing. Get the short yardage with Tebow. Tebow is a good RB/FB, he can throw a football but he's not beating the league with that - but If I'm the Jets I'm not thinking about that, let the defense think about that. If I'm Sparano - I bring Tebow in short yardage/goalline and I RUN Tebow 85%-90% of the time. Maybe you catch a safety cheating up and hit them with a deep middle pass but most of the time I wouldn't use him any differant than how they used Brad Smith when he was here - just keep the chains moving on 3rd down with his legs - then bring Sanchez back.
You got to be kidding! Is that really the best you can do? That is grasping for straws to say the least. When you look at Tebow's career from college to his time in the NFL, he has consistantly been a team first guy. Anything else is revisionist history. You can make arguemnets about his mechanics, accuracy, ability to read defenses etc., but not being a team player (at least with a straight face)...C'MON MAN!
Go back and look at the film, Tebow doesn't do that well on designed run plays, unless the threat of the pass has been presented, he also runs well when a designed pass play breaks down. As far as his side line throws, Tebow did make enough side line/out passes to show he can make the throw, however his problem was consistancy. He tends to wait a little too long before making the throw, causing him to have to throw it away, or try and make a safer throw that the reciever would have to make a great catch to haul in. I personally believe this can be fixed with good coaching, and more practice time with the recievers. People keep forgetting the very limited time they had to gel as a team. They were all very inexperienced.
