LMAO!! I am sorry, but you gave me a belly laugh with that one. I take it from a quote someone made above that Hobbes was the culprit, ftr. Figures.
You must be comprehension challenged. Pennington was not the only example. Favre had the same problem..And As I pointed out those two are different types of player, but the numbers are what they are. I did not say Sparano would help him, as much as I said he would stop being hurt...Now, maybe you're new to watching the games, but 4 second pass plays and a bad right tackle, as far as know, is not a formula for QB success.... Yet, he improved a bit over the previous year. And conversely all it takes is Sanchez numbers to improve as I detailed to make anything Henne does irrelevant.
You choose to ignore the writing on the wall. 1. Yeah. The problems on offense have been very wide-spread. Kendall fiasco or Braylon fiasco cannot be pinned on Schottenheimer alone - Tannenbaum (or as my brother would affectionately call, T-Bomb) fucked things up beyond redemption in these situations, which led to bringing in Faneca in case of Kendall for instance. That said, the execution problem can be stemmed down to two things: a. The players are all collectively dumb as doorknobs and they can't figure things out even if they were playing only by themselves. b. The play designs make no sense whatsoever. If Pennington can't get shit done with this offense, I tend to take #2 as the viable explanation. (which you disagree - I just cannot come to grips with that.) 2. Jets offense lack talent? Let's just play split game here. On offense and defense, which side has more talent? Which side performs better? The writing is on the wall there again. If Coples pans out (it remains to be seen) then the coming season will be the first season ever that Rex had a competent defensive line. He still doesn't have a pass rusher other than Maybin. Revis and Cro - that's a necessary evil, since the front seven consistently failed to produce anything with half semblance of pass rush. Just look at the draft picks spent for crying out loud. On offense? The OL has been better than above-average for a good portion of the past half decade. Receiving corp had musical chair going on for some time but you cannot deny there was a talent invested in there. TE, again that's true too. (Even though you seem to have a healthy dislike for Keller) Other than the RB position, the offense is not too far off in terms of the talent level. Ok - WFH ruins the whole deal, and that is yet another T-Bomb fiasco, but that aside, the offense has been consistently underperforming for past half decade. And admit it or not, even during the early days of Schottenheimer's tenure, Jets offense always had #1 and #2 receivers. First year, Jets got by with no-name scrubs at RB, and from second year on, Thomas Jones tagged along to address that issue. #1/#2 receiver AND a good back? With Mangold and Ferguson at the line? Is that how you spell "Lack of Talent"? McElroy in the huddle? Are you into some gore stuff? If you want to see deers getting hit by cars on the roadside, you can just do that watching the roadkill video on youtube or something. Last but not the least, watch how Bradford struggles this year. He could be out for the season before game 5.
How do I have comprehension issues when the only QB you specifically mentioned in the posts I responded to was Pennington with a vague reference to other QBs. You say Favre had the same problem. You mean Chad Pennington had a torn bicep all those years? Favre didn't give a shit about the Jets, was only in New York for a year, was injured for part of the season(the time period varies according to who you ask), was in a different division, and operated pretty much his own offense from what I have seen many people say on this board. I could go on and on about how different the situations are. You really love those 1 year sample sizes especially when the comparison is apples to oranges. Truth is you haven't come close to articulating anything resembling an actual argument. Maybe there is some truth to what you are saying but you aren't able to back it up properly. And all it takes is for Sam Bradford's numbers to improve...you get the picture. edit: A comparison with much more common ground would be to compare Pennington's numbers under Schotty to Sanchez's numbers under Schotty. But I get the feeling you don't wanna go there.
Players have to execute regardless of the OC. Brian was the guy that had to fall on the sword for last year's failure. Now with latest reports, the coaches struggled to get Mark to play effective, winning football: he was riding on his success the previous two years and did not develop to expectations. 26 turnovers is a lot. Not sure you can put that all on the OC. For the amount of passes thrown, Sanchez could not stretch the field with only a couple 40+ yard throws, and often was unaware of underneath zone coverage. He imploded on Primetime against the Ravens and Giants then laid an egg against the Dolphins. You know the history. Not sure you can put that all on the OC.
I will do that for you. Pennington's number: Sanchez's number: Interesting notes: Pennington got hammered 30 times in 2006 season. The next season... Pennington and Clemens both got hammered 25+, but you cannot blame that on the OC. T-bomb fucked things up royally that season with Pete Kendall, and had Adrien Clarke playing LG. Now, what's funny is, Favre got hammered 30 times too, during his only stint with Jets. Then you know what happened with Sanchez. (26/27/39) People kept saying Sanchez held the ball too long and whatever. Ok. Here is the stats. Except last year, Sanchez fared better than both Favre and Pennington in the Sack department. (True, the OL was better than Pennington's days, I would assume - but Favre case you cannot really make a case about it.) So... the question naturally leads to: 1. Jets OL - with Mangold and Ferguson up front - had better be a fucking joke. 2. Jets passing play design is a fucking joke - either the blocking scheme is a fucking joke, or relies on plays to develop in three days or whatever. What is your guess? One guy fucking it up at the top, or all five guys down below collectively fucking things up consistently? Interesting take #2: No QB broke 7.0 YPC barrier under Schottenheimer's command. (Favre was at pedestrian 6.7 by the way. READ: By pedestrian, I mean BELOW AVERAGE) Is it because the QBs just cannot throw? Or is there something else involved? Interesting take #3: Pennington is +2 in TD/Int department. (17/16, 10/9) Other than injury-shortened (that is, less than half a season) seasons, he had near 1:1 ratio on TD/INT only once. (In that short season: he was +1 twice, and -1 twice, so collectively the ratio is at 1:1) Then twice in two years under Schottenheimer. At least in TD/INT ratio, Sanchez beats both Pennington and Favre combined. (Sanchez: +4, Pennington: +2, Favre: 0 at 22/22) Refer to the stats above and tell me what you think. At the end of the day, production on the field never lies. And Ravens raping Jets QBs was rather a regular protocol in Schottenheimer's offense - you cannot pin that on Sanchez. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- P.S. #1. This will be my last Schottenheimer related post in this thread. There is already another thread about it. P.S. #2. I do not find it fair to do these analysis on my part while not getting anything remotely comparable to those I put up from SDF camp. I would sincerely request some cold, hard data to back up whatever you want to support. Without evidence, just who gives a fuck about whether you are right or wrong?
I really don't see anything wrong with what he said. Unless we're going to put him in a diaper and give him a pacifier on the sideline they all need to stop worrying about Nacho and his frail fucking ego. The Tebow shit-storm did way more to fuck with him than anything that anyone says about turnovers. He'll deal with it or he'll be replaced. No more excuses.
You did a much better job in breaking down the numbers. My response to Hobbes initially was based upon using QBR to measure a Quarterback's bad decision making. QBR is a very silly metric to evaluate a quarterback's play, but that is the argument he made so that is what my rebuttals were based upon. Your breakdown, especially with regards to YPA, does lead to some questions regarding the playcalling but at the same time you can't look at all of these things in a vacuum. Sacks per pass attempt is a much better way to look at sack data as from the pure numbers you posted there is no way to tell the number of dropbacks. I am making an educated guess here that Favre being sacked 30 times and Sanchez being sacked 30 times are not equivalent because I would speculate that Favre attempted to throw the ball more. By all means correct me if I am wrong in thinking that. edit: In any event I suppose we will have a clearer picture in a few months when we see Sanchez in a new offense and Schotty on another team. edit2: I forgot to point out that Pennington had a higher QBR than Sanchez in the 2 years he was under Schotty. I know it was a different coach/philosophy, Pennington wasn't a rookie, etc etc. But there is much more common ground in comparing the 2 of them than there is looking at Schotty on completely different teams with completely different QBs under completely different circumstances and it all hinges on the opinion of whether you think Schotty helped develop Brees or Rivers. If you hate Schotty you say no, if you like him you say yes. edit3: Regardless of what you think of Schotty, Sanchez does have the worst QBR out of the QBs that Schotty has coached.
I hate to continue the Schotty talk, but really nice write up. I completely agree. Its funny how not one QB has really succeeded in his system... coincidence? I think not. Even if a good deal of it falls on the QB, a good OC would design the system around the QBs strengths (Tebow in Denver last year, Cam last year, even Andy Dalton...). Schotty tried to shove whatever QB he was given into a system that no one could grasp/succeed in. Im sure plenty of the blame can be chalked up to execution, but there’s no denying Schottys incompetence to create a well oiled machine on offense. His offense is the opposite of Rex’s defense... Rex used game planning and a great system to offset the lack of talent, while Schotty dismissed talent and used it poorly. Im glad he’s gone. That move seems to be overlooked when discussing the Jets offseason. Im excited to see this new offense come August.
If you limit the discussion to Sanchez's rookie year, yeah. That is correct. Sanchez was only sacked 26 times BUT he dropped back some 360 times or so. (Sack ratio is pretty high for a QB that threw that less.) But after the rookie year, not really. Sanchez was sacked 27 times in 507 dropback, while Favre was sacked 30 times in 552 dropback. (That's 5.32% vs 5.43%. Sanchez was sacked less - only slightly.) So I am inclined to think that there is something more than QB play at work.
Got it. There are definitely some concerning numbers there. Btw I edited my post at the end quite a bit lol and not all of the edits(especially QBR) were in direct response to you, just in case you missed that.
The Jets went to the playoffs in 06 with absolute trash on the Offensive side of the ball and Pennington could barely throw the ball outside the hash marks and up the field. With Favre before the injury we were 8 and 3 and had arguably the best team in the AFC. Favre's numbers over the last decade were like a yoyo. Inconsistency is all over his yearly stats. Sanchez did very well for 2 years and melted down completely last year down the stretch along with the rest of the team. The OC was fired, the QB coach was kept. The team has done some very strange things and talked as if they have little real faith in Sanchez. This is the same management run by the same GM that practically blew Shotty after showing Mangini to the door and acted like he made the steal of the decade when he traded up for Sanchez. There is clearly doubt about Sanchez in Jetsville all the way at the top. The noise is the sign of panic not a new regime that tells it like it is. Personally I think Sanchez can be solid for us he just has to grow up, set his feet and throw. Rex has to STFU about ground and pound and put a D on the field that can recover from a bad INT. Dumbing down the O only helps if the QB and Center are dumb. It won't make up for bad decisions, a slow release and innacurate throws. Sanchez can't grow up until management starts to treat him and the rest of the team like grown men and demand excellence by teaching it not talking about it.
I'd agree with what you say had they never traded for Tim Tebow. If you bring in Tebow, then you want to get him into favorable situations where he can make plays and be effective. That minimizes Mark's importance; especially if Tebow scores in the redzone or shows the improvement in his passing from last year's Playoff game against Pittsburgh, and a full offseason for the first time. The quote: "This is a tough business." Makes me think that Mark and Tebow are on more equal footing in terms of learning the new offense under Sparano and no one is automatically going to be handed any free passes. Either way, the more one guy, whether its Mark or Tebow is the "guy", the better off for the entire team to gel.
I just think if you give them no ammo or nothing to work a story off of then the better we are they cant make stuff up out of thin air. Either say both QB's are horrible and they both need work or they both are outstanding and be limited on convo to the press. Just have a silent season as far as talking to the media goes and come out and kick everybodys ass just because.
That's wishful thinking but you're gonna get the exact opposite: a media firestorm. The team is gonna know what it was like for the Beatles before Shea Stadium. LMAO.
Seriously, I've thought to myself how you could write a book titled How to NOT Raise a QB and it would be a lot of what Sanchez has had to put up with. Step 1: Trade up to draft QB, immediately anoint QB "The Franchise" and talk about how he's going to lead you to the promised land. Step 2: Talk about how the team is going to win the Super Bowl. Step 3: Constantly shuffle WRs, make sure to bring in at least one guy who happens to be a total asshole. If possible, remove reliable targets whom keep their mouths shut. Step 4: Have an awful offensive coordinator. If possible, please let him be there for some time prior to QBs arrival so his "system" is in place. Step 5: Criticize QB publicly, call a timeout he calls for "the dumbest timeout you've ever seen." Step 6: Bring in a QB with a larger following than your starting QB but also within incredibly flawed mechanics. Call him your "backup" Step 7: Read the link. Seriously, I'm far from a Sanchez apologist, but considering how the Jets have almost gone out of their way to make things harder for him, it's hard to see how he had a chance.
I don't think so. I think Cavanaugh is not very happy with Sanchez at this point and he's going out of his way to show that. If he's not pointing the finger at Sanchez then he's an idiot because most people will take it that way based on what he has said about Sanchez and Tebow the last couple of days.
sounds to me like greasing the skids slowly but surely...when he says "success quote-unquote", without hearing the tone obviously, it sounds almost sarcastic...why do i get the feeling the script is already written and it's slowly being revealed thru certain comments and little actions? unless sanchez does an aaron rogers impersonation tebow is starter by mid-season...just the way woody wants it??
Tebow doesn't minimize Marks importance. The Jets aren't going to sniff a SB unless Mark becomes a very good QB and Soprano can teach and run a pro passing O against top defensive teams. Tim Tebow might be a gimmick to back us into the playoffs if Mark Sucks. He ain't coming close to taking us on a run through the playoffs. The more Tebow plays the more likely Tanny and Rex are gone. They can all distance themselves from Mark but at the end of the day Sanchez has to throw the ball and throw it well for the Jets to make a serious run at a SB. He can do it and the team can do it but not by talking about it or planing to do it a different way.
