Rex's style seemed effective at first. It began to fray quite a bit last year. Can Rex make some changes and pick up the momentum forward again? I would hardly say no. Will he? I don't know at this point. But I don't think Rex has a proven track record of finding value in Qb's that others do not see. It is coincidental that John Elway was most directly responsible for trading Tebow to the Jets. Coincidental because, despite not being a Denver fan by any means, I had great respect for Elway. Still do. Something tells me John Elway is a better judge of Tebow's talent and potential upside than Rex Ryan is. In any event I don't know the extent to which Ryan reached some assessment of Tebow on his own, or the extent to which it was his decision, even partially. I am close to certain much of hte driving force on the Jet side for the trade came from Woody Johnson. Ryan's part in it? Hard to say, but I don't think there's any particular reason to have confidence in the trade just because Ryan happens to currently be HC of the Jets.
The more I look at the trade, the more I think this. I hope I'm wrong and Rex/Tony have some master plan here
Can your posts get any more funnier? Seriously, it makes me laugh just reading ur posts. Colts and Rams have the worst odds of reaching SB next year. I wonder why? Packers and Patriots are 1st and 2nd favorites to win the SB. Pats were one Wes Welker catch away from winning the SB, but they lost, and their season became a failure (per your view). Why on earth are they 2nd favorites this year? I thought what happened last year meant nothing in the future, yet they are the favorites? Show me an 0-16 team one year winning the SB the next year and I'll show you Championship losing teams one year winning SB the next year. In fact, show me a 6-10 team that won the SB next year. I bet you're not going to do a search on this, and rightfully so.
RR is an experienced "loser". He hasn't won shit in his three years and remains to be a loser. Why do we still have him? Why didn't we just let him go after his first season? Its obvious he is a "loser". Belichick is another loser for not winning a SB post spygate, yet he keeps getting his extension and is considered one of the greatest HC of all time. Aaron Rodgers is a loser. He too couldn't win the SB last year. Why isn't he a FA yet???
Its not the worst trade by any means. We gave up a 4th for him, hardly a lot for backup QB ready to challenge your starting QB. It may be a W. Johnson move, but I think we got a bargain at a position we needed depth BADLY. I mean if Sanchez goes down for any significant amount of time, do you really think Drew could have taken over the team and carried it to the playoffs? (not pointing at you necessarily, but all those against the trade). With Tebow backing up Sanchez as a QB, Im not going to be too worried if Sanchez was to miss a few games and thats why I think the 4th rounder was peanuts for the peace of mind, besides all the revenue it generates for the owner. The more money the owner makes, the more he will be willing to reinvest in the team, not that Woody ever shied away from it.
It is possible that Johnson was mainly responsible for the trade, but Rex has been very verbal in his support of it and how he thinks it will help the team. As far as Elway's assessment of Tebow, I too have a lot of respect for Elway as a quarterback, but he didn't draft Tebow and he hated the offense Denver had to run with him at quarterback.
We can skip on what value as a QB Tebow brings to this team since that has been beaten to death in the Tebowmania forum, so: While you say we only gave up a 4th, could a 4th have been spent in other areas of need? For example Rhodes was traded for a 4th and 7th. Could an o lineman be traded for a 4th? So I mean while yes we didn't have a great backup QB, if most starting QB's go down the season is in flux. This trade makes more sense if there weren't other obvious holes on the team. Backup QB wasn't one of them currently. Because of those reasons I agree with Big Blocker that this seems more like a big name move than a football move considering the state of the team. That is why I hope Rex and Sparano find a way to use Tebow as something besides a backup and with Sanchez on the field. If they only brought him in to run just the WC with Sanchez taking those snaps off, its going to be picked up on and stopped eventually. If they brought him to be a backup QB, its an awful lot to give up for a backup QB when you just signed one.
Ah U one of these coulda, woulda, shoulda people bursting with hope with maybes & what ifs. The FACTS are beside a few of the players you mentioned the remainder are just that players filling a slot nothing more nothing less. You may disagree so instead of debating this since it will not change either of our stances lets just hope & in closing I hope that at the end of the 2012 season you are not a disappointed NYJ fan like have been for the last 43 years One either thing is now in the STANDINGs there totally NO difference between 0-16 & losing the AFCCG right? :sad:
You have totally missed the point so it is your post that has me chuckling. I USED 0-16 as just a example I NEVER said we were going 0-16 even though that is possible just like 19-0 is possible : Learn to read things far more carefully sad:
I never interpreted u saying we'll go 0-16. U said if a team goes 0-16. It has no effect the following year. And I'm saying if it has no effect, then show me a team that went on to the SB after an 0-16 season, or even after a 6-10 or worse season. There are a handful of teams that go 6-10 or worse every year so the sample size is pretty big for you. Again, not doing such a research just proves that your point of one season holding no effect on the following is invalid.
Nope all I am saying when it comes to the STANDINGs there is zero difference between 0-16 & say 8-8 or losing the AFCCG period U hang your hat on what may or may not occurred in the past which has nothing to do with the 2012 season which is what we are discussing. That being said I hope the NYJs do not disappoint U in 2012 or beyond . :sad:
This deserves further discussion. As others have noted, the Jets had other needs than a better backup Qb. They already had Stanton. They had McElroy all along, and imo he showed much promise last pre-season. But... it is far from clear that Tebow was brought here merely to be a backup Qb. If you wanted someone as a backup, better than Stanton, you would have been best served by bringing in a Qb who would better fit the O than Tebow. Instead it seems to be from all indications the intent to use Tebow in a wildcat type O. Some argue this makes sense since the Jets used to run a few plays a game with Brad Smith doing that. But the cost of bringing Tebow to the Jets, the effect his fans will have on the whole atmosphere, suggest that the Jets will either be using Tebow more than Smith was used, far more, or the whole trade was a waste of resources. This leads to three main points. The first is that the fourth and the sixth were picks that could have been used to bolster the roster elsewhere than at backup Qb, since the Jets already had Stanton and McElroy. Those holes are still there, and the Jets have two fewer picks to try and fill them with. This seems like a bad choice on this aspect alone. The second is that the various notions being floated about what Tebow's role will really be suggests a lack of coherence. I can assure you this will not be a case of Ryan and Sparano coming up with some totally original offense. It will be some combination of an offense geared to Sanchez and a wildcat type O using Tebow to some extent. But the Jets presumably were going to create new offense, with Schotty's departure, for Sanchez to begin with. How they are going to create that and also add a heavy emphasis on an effective wildcat O is far from clear at this point. Third, if in fact Tebow at some point is used in the more common role of the backup Qb, that being replacing Sanchez if Sanchez gets hurt or fails, I don't think he was a good choice for that role. Remember that Tebow did not really run a wildcat type O in Denver. He was the starting Qb, and as I understand it they did not run wildcat plays off the set O. So, assuming Tebow comes in as the backup at some point during the season, what offense do they run for/with him? The one they had put in for Sanchez? Wrong. Put in a new O midseason? I don't think that's a good idea - how is Tebow, let alone the rest of the O, going to learn a new offense in the middle of the season? In short each of these points argue against the Tebow trade being a solid football move.
So, that core you can "build off" by going to the AFCCG results in an 8-8 season? Your arguement is flawed.
Ummm ... the HC says what the owner wants him to say or he's looking for another job. That's reality. :lol: Elway didn't want Tebow as the Donkeys' QB because Tebow is a lousy QB. The Donkeys have Willis McGahee to run the ball. They need a QB to pass it, and Tebow couldn't do that. Another bit of reality.
No, the core they built off reached another AFC championship. Then they didn't build the core and thought they could get by with Hunter for Woody, Plax for Braylon, McKnight for Brad Smith, etc etc.
The thing about that third point is, yeah, any team that has to go to a backup mid season is going to have some adjustments to make. And since there may be some benefits to doing so, that's not all bad by any means. I didn't mean to suggest there would be no upside. But the situation is already one with a new OC, a presumably new offense, then on top of that the need to add plays for Tebow in the wildcat, and then to shift once again to an offense that is not the wildcat, not the Sanchez O and presumably what then? Sounds like an impossible task for the OC and the whole CS.
For all we know, he could be the next Brett Ratliff, but I sure hope he can become an asset to the team. The Brad Smith comparison is reasonable, but Tim Tebow is the supercharged version of Brad Smith. This entire board hated to see Brad Smith leave, but pretty much everyone was on board not paying him $4mil a year. Tebow is cheaper (restructured his contract), and can actually pass the ball. One fewer. We swapped 6th with 7th rounder, hardly worth mentioning imo. OCs get paid to do this. Denver didn't have to pull a few magic tricks to come up with a game plan. WC has been part of our new OC playbook. WC has been a part of the Jets offense every year. We'll use more of it this year, but its not like we'll be bringing in a totally new offense for everybody to learn. If anything, its the player running the WC that has more learning to do and Tebow is already a pro at it, doing this for years now. I like the Tebow trade because I think if the Jets offense goes dead at any point during a game, we can insert Tebow for a couple of plays and if he pull out some nice yardage, it can instill some lifeline in to the offense and up their confidence. I think you are over-thinking this. He is the same Tebow that took over a 1-5 team and turned it in to a playoff winning team. You can argue about his good D and all that, but the Denver D ranked in the bottom half of the NFL. If you think there are a lot of intangibles to that D that throws off a lot of the vital stats (20th in YPG allowed, 19th in 1st downs allowed per game, 24th in PPG, 28th in ToP), then where were those intangibles when Tebow was NOT the QB? That same team went 1-5 before Tebow. If Sanchez goes down, there will be changes in the game plan no matter who is backing him up. If Sanchez goes down say in week 6, and Tebow had taken WC snaps until then, the opposing Ds would now have to change their game plans as well. Until then, Tebow was an occasional WC QB. Now, he'd be a WC QB in every play, even if its a simple pass to the slot receiver running a slant. Teams don't know if Tebow will pass or run, hence the WC confusion. With Sanchez, teams knew he'd be either passing or handing it off. Tebow's best skill is his running abilities combined with the Ds uncertainty. Before Tebow was traded to the Jets, I hated him simply because he defeated the Jets. Now that he's a Jet, I'll defend him. I'll support him. I'll support him just like how I supported JT for one season. Nobody has to agree with the trade. I initially didn't like it, but as time goes by, I've come to realize that its not the worst trade by any means. Carson Palmer was traded for two 1sts. If I had to pick between Palmer and Tebow, my choice is Tebow. I know Palmer trade required two 1sts because Cincy didn't want him gone. Broncos wanted Tebow gone and hence the 4th rounder for the QB that put their franchise out of a miserable state.
8-8 season after a 10-6 season is not a huge drop off. His point is valid and I agree with him. He's defending against the idea that 0-16 is no different than losing the SB.
