If by logic, you mean bald faced lies, I guess not. Lloyd requested a trade because he didn't want his market value as a free agent being jeopardized by a scatter-armed project quarterback. Tebow was traded because the Broncos acquired Peyton Manning. Amazing that anyone is delusional enough not to understand something so simple.
Being a Gator fan is not exclusive, I can still cheer for the Jets. To abyzmul or anyone else with similar sentiments: Actual Game Stats are not important and mostly mean nothing,,,, and that's why they all spend so much time and money recording and keeping them. Here are the two most relevant Stats for the donkeys in 2010-11 imoho: Orton W/L 4-14 ---- Tebow W/L 9-7 2010 Orton, 7th year NFL Vet, 2nd year Bronco. With Pro Bowl WR Lloyd & #2 WR Gaffney, he went a sparkling 3-10 (.231). 2010 Tebow, Raw Rookie in NFL, 1st year Bronco. Thrown in cold off the bench after 13 games, he went 1-2 (.333) After the Lock-Out Off-season, the Donkey HBC Fox claimed that he would hold a 'FAIR' QB competition in the pre-season to determine the 2011 QB,,, Results: Pass Efficiency Rating 69 Brady Quinn Pass Efficiency Rating 104 Kyle Orton Pass Efficiency Rating 108 Tebow + a 5.4 ypc rushing average. The genius Fox-El-Dim-way 'FAIR' determination meant that they would start, 'The Best Chance To Win QB Orton' for 2011,,, and he followed up that 3-10 season by going 1-4. Then they again throw Tebow in cold off the bench on a 1-4 Team. But first, to start the season they dumped their #2 WR Gaffney to the Skins. Then when they benched Orton, they also traded away their ONLY 2010 Offensive Pro Bowler, WR B.Lloyd. Plus their best receiving and 1st round RB Moreno was already injured out for the season. Can anyone here even name a donkey's TE? Tim still managed to go 7-4 plus 1-1 Playoffs for an 8-5 record, on a weak/crappy 1-4 team in 2011. That vaulted donkey defense, over 2 Orton QB'ed seasons, went 4-14 (.222). With Tebow coming in cold off the bench with little to no 1st team practice time, they went 9-7 (.563). But it's the defense that deserves all of the winning credit, but none of that 4-14 losing credit? OC McCoy admitted to the Denver media that "I know nothing about the Read/Option offense." He didn't design the Read/Option Plays, and neither did Defensive minded Head coach Fox. Tebow went to them and showed them the plays that would work with the team that he had to work with. So of course the idiot media-morons gave all of the credit to Fox and/or McCoy. They didn't dumb down or reduce the donkey-kong play book, Tim ADDED to it with plays that took the donkey's anemic offense from 27th in the NFL in rushing to #1 in the NFL rushing. To reward Tim, El' Dim-Way then went 'public' with his negative comments on Tim's completion %, which was actually better than El' Dim-Ways rookie numbers were. Only idiots and/or liars would claim that the donkeys had to 'Dumb-Down' the offense for Tim. "Denver coaches and executives in the Broncos room at the draft combine in 2010 were stunned by Tim's ability to not only break down his offense at the University of Florida (A 3" thick book of Spread/Option plays) but theirs too,,, and San Diego’s,,, and New England’s. >>>They said they had never seen a college quarterback do such a thing."<<< =================== It was looking to me like the Colts were working on the Suck-4-Luck program, and therefore Fox/El' Dim-Way were trying to sabotage Tim enough that they could then bring in ole 'Happy Feet' to replace him, without the loyal Bronco fans burning down the stadium on them. But surprise/surprise, Tim won games, even with nearly everything stacked against him. In his Bronco Career, he still threw for 17 TD's to just 9 Ints, even after they traded away the Top 2 WR's from 2010. He still ran the ball for 5.4 ypc with 12 TD's to just 6 Lost Possession Fumbles. For a TD to Turnover ratio of 2 to 1, with 29 TD's to just 15 Turnovers. That 2 to 1 is P.Mannings Career TD/Int Ratio btw. IMOHO, Tebow did 'More with Less' than any other QB in the NFL in 2011. Tim's Donkey Career 2 'cold off the bench' season Stats for a 4-14 team: Passing - 167 of 353, 47.3%, 2,383 yds, 6.8 yds/att, 14.3 yds/comp. 17 TD's to 9 Ints, 75.1 PER <<< Rushing - 165 for 887 yds, 5.4 ypc, 12 TD's to 6 LP-Fumbles. That's a 2 to 1 TD to Turnover Ratio, both passing and running. Tim's just a crappy un-needed 'Gadget QB' in the minds of many. But what do the actual on the field game day STATS say? Tim's 2 seasons with a Lock-Out in between, and coming in both times cold off the bench: On 332 total plays, 3,270 total yards, for 9.8 yards/play, 29 TD's, 15 Total Turnovers. Proof Positive that Tim will NEVER be a quality 'take care of the ball' NFL QB,,,, right? :metal: I agree whole-heartedly that it's a TEAM, not just one man. TEAM includes: Owner - GM - E-VP - Head Coach - entire staff, PLUS every player on the roster. What did the donkeys, except for Tim's remaining teammates, do for him over those 2 seasons? Credit to the teammates that got behind Tim's leadership and played their hearts out going 9-7 for idiots! Organization/staff are either Idiots, or 'get PM conspiracy' liars, one or the other imo. ================= I'm a Gator (all sports) fan first and always. My first Gator football game in old Florida Field was when Spurrier was our QB, not the HBC. Since the 80's I've followed no specific NFL team, the 'No Fun League' mostly deserves that name. But I like to see my former Gator players do well at the next level. I've NEVER liked the boyz, but I still followed Emmitt Smith for example. I haven't followed the Jets much since the fun Namath days, but I also have nothing against them. And now I have a big PLUS for them,,,,, so GooooooooooJets! PS I don't own any Gator/Tebow jerseys. I don't own any Donkey/Tebow jerseys. And I probably won't own any Jet/Tebow jerseys. I'm a Gator, not a Tebower, but I'll defend any Gator that seems to need it. (and my follow up posts should be considerably shorter)
Comparing the first 16 starts of a second year QB used sparingly as a rookie and a rookie who started every game as a rookie is subjective dishonesty to anyone that is interested in honest debate. It's odd how you don't even want to consider completion percentage and still want to give Tebow credit for the 'win' when his major contributions were in very limited fashion as to those 'wins'. Or maybe not so odd, just biased. You don't recall correctly. Pennington came back fine from that broken hand later that season. Pennington's career-limiting injury was one to his rotator cuff, suffered against the Bills in week 9 of the 2004 season and that's the injury that kept recurring over his career. This is something that is common knowledge among most Jets fans. But of course, you'll remember that in retrospect after you slink off to Google to find the truth. Odd that you would remember that pre-season injury against the GIANTS so vividly, though. Do I still lose? :wink:
Ok, so your source which is a blog of some type claims that Mark was injured for the last six weeks of the season. I'm willing to pretend your point is valid. So how about we look at the stats for Mark's first 10 starts of the season, when he wasn't hurt, and compare them to Tebow's first 10 starts? Surely there must be a HUGE difference because you claim Mark's injury is why their stats are comparable. Here we go: Sanchez (first 10 starts of last season): 2407 yards passing/rushing 16 Touchdowns passing/rushing 15 Turnovers (ints and fumbles lost) Tebow (first 10 starts of last season): 2309 yards passing/rushing 18 Touchdowns passing/rushing 10 Turnovers (ints and fumbles lost) So once again, Mark had a bit more yardage. Tebow had more touchdowns, and fewer turnovers. Whichever way you want to cut it, the point stands. Tebow and Mark Sanchez offer similar offensive production from the Quarterback spot, and Tebow turns the ball over less.
Did you even bother looking at the source? You suck at this. Keep posting the same nonsense, Giants troll.
Uh, no it's not. How exactly is it dishonest to compare stats of two quarterbacks in their first years starting? It may be unfair if we're talking about someone like Aaron Rogers who sat on the bench for a significant amount of time learning an NFL offense. Do we really believe Tebow somehow had a great deal of benefit in year 1 which lead him to effectively run the read option in year 2? Or is it more likely in year 2 he played just about how he would have as a rookie? Also, remember there was a shortened offseason/camp last year so he didn't even benefit from that. Regardless, I was giving Mark the benefit of the doubt by NOT comparing his first 16 starts to Tebows at first. If you do that, it looks really bad. We can consider it, I just think TD to INT and yardage is more significant to measure how a QB helps a team. I made the same arguments FOR Mark in the past when people have said his completion percentage was a huge problem. I'm not saying Tebow is a super-accurate passer, I'm simply saying that people are exaggerating his inadequacies as a passer as compared to Mark Sanchez. Was he fine? Like I said, it's all a blur. Obviously I'm somewhat correct, it was against the giants in the preseason. Regardless, the point stands that QB's get more than concussions in the pocket. You're deflecting because you can't defend your original statement that pocket QB's only get concussions. Well douchebag (and you are being a douchebag here) I obviously didn't slink off to google to "find the truth" regarding the preseason hand injury to Pennington. Of course, we weren't talking about "what injury did Chad in" we were talking about your fucktarded statement that pocket QB's only get concussions. I do, a family member who is a giants fan sent me the pic of Chad breaking his hand repeatedly, so it's etched into my mind. lol You are claiming that I'm a Giants fan, and I've been posting here for the past few years as some big ruse to eventually point out that Mark Sanchez and Tim Tebow have similar statistics? Do you realize how stupid that sounds? I thought better of you Abyzmul. Just admit you were wrong about the concussion thing and move on.
A blog says Cimini wrote it? So what, I can say Tebow wrote this, it doesn't make it valid. Also, you are deflecting again because your premise has been destroyed. You fail.
I get it now. It's fair to compare Sanchez in a rookie season starting all 16 games to Tebow starting 16 games spread across 2 seasons and one postseason, but it's unfair if we compare Tebow's first starting year after learning an NFL offense to Aaron Rodgers' first year starting at QB after learning an NFL offense. Why, pray tell? This is such a stupid argument. I get it now, Tebow gets to use the no-camp argument but Sanchez does not, even though his entire receiving corps was different. Gotcha. What benefit of the doubt are you giving him? You changed your tact from : ... to comparing their first 10 starts. There's no objectivity there. That totally changes their situations. Right? Pfft. I've been an objective supporter of Sanchez and there's no way to argue against completion percentage. It's a statistic that defines consistency as a QB. Mark's is not good and needs to improve. Tebow's is utterly pathetic and is not indicative of an NFL QB. Well, that's good, because not only is he not a 'super-accurate passer', he's not even an 'average passer'. And where did I contend that QBs ONLY get concussions in the pocket? Go ahead and quote that for me, peaches. My bad, I thought you had meant real injuries, not the ones that players can come back from wearing a glove. Next time I'll take you more literally, although it was when I asked this: ...then you came up with the Giants preseason game, and you were totally incorrect. Good job at sucking, it seems like your strong suit. You must be popular at parties. I was just throwing something out there to see if you've get defensive, although you've been trying at offense this whole time. Finally I get some defense, though. Quote what I said about concussions and then show me how you're proven me wrong. You can't, because you still suck at this.
Holy SHIT! YOU FUCKING SUCK AT THIS! http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/archive/_/month/january-2012/count/76
I was thinking a blunt, and what is going on in this thread, anyway? Anybody want to get some Taco Cabana?
Tebow Week 5 (vs SD) to Week 11 (vs NYJ) 1 INT, 4 fumbles, 15 sacks (13 of which came against MIA and DET) Week 12 (vs SD) to Week 17 (vs KC) 5 INT, 9 fumbles, 18 sacks (5 vs CHI, 4 vs NE, 4 vs BUF)
This ought to give some an idea about Tebow's completion % and how many of his passes are throw-aways.
Um...you know this how exactly? lol I didn't know you could read my mind. You are wrong, but hey...go ahead and think what you want.
Great point. I saw a lot more haters on the Orange Mane then I did Tebow maniacs most of the time. A lot of people did like him in general...but I never saw many Tebowite type fans who thought he was perfect, etc. Unless I completely missed it all. lol
No, the haters have brainwashed themselves into believing that "Tebowites" overrun every forum and bash everyone over the head with how great Tebow is. When in reality, the haters outnumber the "Tebowites" by at least 3 to 1 on every board.
There's a pretty logical chance that the Tebow stuff gets merged back into general population, it appears mainly to be serving it's purpose as a cultural quarantine. You probably don't want to lengthen that quarantine period by acting like martyrs.
