So if hitting Sanchez over the head with the "Jets are Silly" stick doesn't create a franchise QB instantly after hitting him over the head with the "Jets are Silly" sticks in 2009 and 2011 didn't, then we should just move on? I think the overwhelming message that the NFL is getting at this point is that the Jets are silly. Rookie QB - SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! 2nd year QB - SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! 3rd year QB (as line rots and WR's are shuffled again) - ASOMUGHA! SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! SUPER BOWL! 4th year QB - TEBOW! TEBOW! TEBOW! Trent Dilfer has the best line of everything that has been said about this whole debacle so far. When the trade was announced Dilfer tweeted the following: "You could write a book about HOW NOT TO RAISE A YOUNG QB and just title it JETS!"
We're discussing how typical stats people swear by, such as "total defense" which paints NE"s defense as one of the worst defenses in the NFL do not accurately measure what they are supposed to. All they do is serve to create misconceptions. Much the same other traditional stats people look at QB's are used to create bad misconceptions about Tim Tebow.
I picked one drive and said the Patriots can have long drives when they want. Therefore one drive does establish this fact since I said if they want they can have long drives and I showed one example of this. So your saying the defense relies on the offense? The defense relies on having a lead, that is why they don't need 3 and out and turnovers. It's not because Bill choose to let teams march the down field. It is because that defense can only play with a lead, thus in that case you let teams march down the field. When they need to get a stop, they rarely could, especially late in the game. That means they didn't have a great defense. Giants x2, Baltimore, Buffalo are games off the top of my head I remember the Pats defense falling flat on their face when they needed one stop to preserve a win. Special teams is separate from offense and defense. You resorting to special teams and calling it defense shows you are struggling making an argument. I'm sorry the Giants defense pitched a shutout, held the Packers offense in check, 49ers which was not that hard, and then the Pats with Brady. The Giants statistically all season had a bad defense, but they got clear players back and played great. They played much better than the Pats. They stopped two offenses, GB and ATL, that were much better than who the Pats supposedly stopped in the playoffs. The Giants stopped Brady, Rodgers, Ryan and the Pats stopped Tebow. Big differences. Defense does win championships, but more importantly balanced teams win championships. They also shut down Brady multiple times. I don't care who you are, Brady is a top 5 QB in the league. Your eyes are not a terrible tool to measure defenses because it takes into the account the inefficiency of the offense. Lee Evans dropping a game winning TD pass and Cundiff missing a FG are inefficient offenses not good defenses. Eyes tell you more than stats because stats are baseline. You can use stats to guide, but the eye test is what counts. The Patriots forced two turnovers all postseason. 4 teams had less, and they all played 2 less games than the Pats. When the Patriots needed a stop, their defense provided one all postseason, against the Ravens. Then they go and throw that stop away by letting the Ravens have multiple chances to win the game. Not only that, the Pats on the Giants game winning touchdown drive stopped the offense on one play that whole drive. Other than that, a mostly passing drive, the Giants completed every pass. In general, the Pats stopped the Giants on only one drive in the second half. So about or greater than 75% of the time the Giants team put up points in the second half. That is not a good defense, especially in the biggest game they had all year. The Giants defense let up 7 points, then 0 points the rest of the second half. Their defense played much much better than the Pats, espeically considering the Pats offense should be better than the Giants.
I of course cannot say I know that the general scenario painted in the OP will not happen. But it is unlikely. To say the least. Not the least of it is the part about beating the Pats. The Pats have already shown they know how not only to beat Tebow but to embarrass him. Part of what troubles me is that so much hype has taken place this week, you have to step back and see where the Jets are right now in the Off Season. Is this all part of some master plan for fixing how the team fell short? Or is it only the latest in what appear to be a series of reactive moves, most of which are small and unimportant enough to fix the real problems the Jets had due to cap constraints. At best it might be somewhere in the middle, but some part of it has to be about the reactive scenario. The Jets ended last season with woeful performances by Sanchez, a need to fill at least four starting positions by next season, arguably more, several key backup positions and in some way deciding what if anything to do about the Qb position, at least changing the backup. There were also coaching moves to be made. On the Qb issue, first there was noise about Manning. Manning imo dissed the Jets by taking them out of his candidates, and they reacted by extending Sanchez's contract. Then they signed a rather underwhelming backup in Stanton to be #2. Meanwhile Manning all along had Denver as a very possible candidate, and it was hard all along to see how Tebow would stay there. In fact it was evident to me that Elway wanted to deal Tebow as much as he wanted Manning, so Tebow was not staying there. And as we all know now the Jets got Tebow after already signing Stanton. I can't make any sense of this progression of events. And that's only for Qb. So far, of the four starting positions, the Jets have gotten two players with durability questions. And for the key backups and other needs, really nothing. And it's hard to say they will be counting on the draft when they trade a 4th and a 6th to get Tebow when they already putatively had a backup Qb on the roster. Plus there is less cap space due to the Tebow signing. I would like to think this all makes sense. But it really doesn't. The Jets said they wanted to go ground and pound. Meanwhile they have the same RT combo they had last year, which sucked, LT will be gone, Greene is not an every down back, and Tebow is not a running backdespite all the wild speculation here about all the positions he could play. Imo it's not going to make sense to bring in Tebow on a situational basis to run the ball. It will disrupt the flow of the O - one of hte main criticisms the Schotty Haters had of the O last season. And they have not even addressed backup interior lineman. In a pass happy league the Jets right now look less prepared for it than they did last year. Even Tebow Fans can't claim the Jets look stronger in that department. Meanwhile the D is still missing an ROLB and another safety. At least they brought back Pouha. There are still too many holes. There are now added on top of that questions of how this O will be put together, and operate. A new OC will be primarily responsible for that, and he has never been an OC before. And I am supposed to be optimistic? THis instead looks much more like a desparation PR move to put fannies in the seats. It hides the fact that the Jets have been mostly inept this off season, in part because Tanny put this team in a straightjacket regarding the cap, due to past questionable moves coming home to roost. The Tebow move neither shows confidence in Sanchez nor addresses his limitations. It does nothing to improve his odds of success going forward at the same time it fails to bring in a real backup/replacement for him, all while Sanchez had added another guaranteed year in his contract. I could be wrong, but I doubt it - this is a perfect storm of horse manure. It's just adding insult to injury that we now have to put up with idiot Tebowmania fans. I haven't felt this bad about the Jets since Kotite and 1-15, but at least then you knew even a demented owner like Hess would have to do something, and he did. Woody is more like Barnum and Bailey. THe circus will go on, I am afraid.
Not ONCE did I say the Pats defense was bad because of their total yards or yards given up per game. You are arguing that. No the tradition stats for QBs mostly works. Completion percentage, touchdowns, interceptions, completions, attempts, etc. The untraditional one, QB rating, is the one you hang on to support Tebow has more upside than Sanchez. Add in all these arguments you are making still don't prove Tebow has more upside than Sanchez. It doesn't help that you are making illogical arguments in some long winded attempt to show that Tebow has more upside than Sanchez. HE does NOT have more upside than Sanchez, but does that mean he has no upside, no. I never said that. Both can become good NFL QB's, I think and many others also, Sanchez has more of a shot at becoming that good NFL QB than Tebow does for reasons I have already stated that you never could find an argument for.
Busts don't turn 1-4 teams around and get them to the divisional playoff round. Busts don't beat your current starting QB head to head. Busts don't fly in private jets. Busts don't get guaranteed playing time as "back-up" QB's when you have "sure" starter. He's not "our guy". He's YOUR guy. He's the Jets's guy and the Jets just freaking finished battling out the Jaguars for him and traded away two picks and paid back Denver money just to get him. So please stop with your hate, and support your future starting quarterback.
it was a good read and something that many of us that followed Tebow have been saying, its not the wildcat, its the read option offense and it does work
News flash. This is NEW YORK. We hate Everybody. Especially our starting QB's, OC's, GM's, Coaches, you name it! The only thing we don't hate is a really good show.
PLEASE READ if you want a logical approach to this, by an x's and o's guy who is not a homer or a hater. http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-t.../why-tebow-should-work-with-the-new-york-jets
Wait so he was such a valuable commodity to his 8-8 team that the MINUTE the offseason began they gave a 36 year old with NO NECK 100 million dollars and shipped him out for a fourth rounder when two years ago he was a 1st round pick? First round picks who are the statistical worst QB in football, who get traded two years after they are picked for a 4th rounder, to be a backup QB and wildcat QB, are MONUMENTAL BUSTS. Interesting, ANOTHER March 2012 join date who is propping up this kid. Perhaps more than once every 25 years you'll win a game versus the Canes, and won't have to live off the pathetic career of Tim Tebow.
But it's also true about New York fans that we get so caught up in the BS and chaos that we don't think winning is remotely possible so it goes unmentioned.
It mostly paints guys in high octane passing offenses, as BETTER quarterbacks when in reality that has almost EVERYTHING to do with the offense they run in and their surrounding cast. Traditional stats are almost entirely TEAM stats or combination stats. There is only ONE QB stat that is solely dependent on the QB and that's interceptions. Everything else are combination stats. Interception % is the only one you can be pretty much sure, has everything to do with the quarterback. The rest are pretty bad. You can't tell apart a completed pass because the receiver made a great catch out of a badly thrown pass or because the quarterback placed the ball perfectly. Receptions, completions, touchdowns, attempts....it requires the QB and the receiver. As well as the offensive line, offensive style, play calling, and many other things. And with offenses becoming more and more diverse in the NFL, they become poorer measurements of quarterbacks from team to team. Because those other factors, combined, have a much greater impact on a quarterback's stats, than the quarterback themselves do. And other alternative methods like those designed by ESPN, have been shown to be pretty questionable at best because of the way they take it upon themselves to create subjective values based on even more specific and situational plays .
If that's the reaction you want to have over a back-up QB..more power to ya. Lord knows you are never short on pessimism and knee jerk reactions. Fact is..Jets have had one of the more talented rosters over the last 5 years. And yes young QB's need to be developed in a certain way..but at some point the expectations have to go up. Turnover in the NFL is inevitable. You have to be willing to roll with the punches. Sanchez's biggest area of opportunity is as a leader. If bringing Tebow in doesn't fire him up and make him grow up alittle, nothing will. So what's your answer? Not have any expectations for him to improve b/c of the supporting cast? how does that make any sense at all?
How can you actually type with Tebow's root buried down your throat? How can you say "support your future starting quarterback" with any amount of certainty? You are just being obnoxious now. Saying that is just as bad as saying Tebow will never be a starter.
And passer rating accurately measures a quarterback's performance? That is the traditional stat you use to support Tebow. You have to be kidding me.
