i know that and u know that but the talent u reference is built to win now - max in the next 2-3 yrs. thats the window. unless we immediately start to replenish certain key positions WR. what if we have already seen sanchez' ceiling or are very close to it. what if revis holds out again and has to be traded. can anyone say the jets have done a good job building thru the draft in recent years. yes they have landed a couple surprises, pro bowl players, and a stud. so what. many teams have similar records. there are alot of opinions out there and many moving parts. i dont fully condone going after manning but i bet the jets make a heavy play for him based on the characteristics of the owner/GM and the fear of remaining second class to the giants and pats, and the possibility of the dolphins immediately jumping the jets.
we have a young/in their prime core to build around- Sanchez Mangold Brick Greene Keller Harris Revis Cromartie Mo Kerley etc... Yes we need to tweak the roster an dupgrade some spots but we have a nice talent base to work with.
Sanchez - Jury is still out on whether he's a good enough player to be at the core of a championship team. He's obviously good enough to manage a game at that level if the rest of the team is championship caliber. Mangold - No questions. Brick - Hate to say it but Brick is not a top 5 LT at this point. He's more like top 10 and a solid contributor. He may well be one of those players who plays at the level of the players around him. Put a good LG next to him and he's great, put a JAG there and not so. Greene - Complementary back. Does not have the toughness to be a mainstay and does not run all that well behind an average line. Clearly not a center piece in the Jets offense at this point. Keller - Average receiving tight end. Poor blocker. Harris - Core player even though he does not get that recognition from his peers. Revis - Great player. Cromartie - Good #2 CB. Weak in run support. MoWilk - Who knows? Kerley - Who knows? Seriously, the Jets have nothing like the core talent that teams like the Steelers, Patriots and Ravens have. That's why the Jets are not elite. They don't need to add supporting players to the cast to get over the top, they need to add core players who are for the most part better than what they have already.
I think Manning to Miami is worth the risk for us. I also don't think we would have to cut many players to make it happen. We have a top 10 defense, which I agree with jet fans that the change in scheme could have a negative effect. It likely will. but regardless as it stands we have a good young defense. We have plenty of playmakers on offense with Marshall and Bush. I'm of the opinion that Bess would be a premier slot reciever with a good quarterback, but that remains to be seen. I also always thought Hartline would be perfect with manning, again, remains to be seen, but I believe the talent is there. Now if we got manning, I wouldn't throw us in the superbowl automatically. But I would say we have a chance, and thats enough for me. I just want to be able to get excited and Manning brings the possibility of playoffs and superbowl, and the dolphins haven't had that for a long time. He could get injured right away and it could blow up in our faces, but I just think the dolphins don't have much to lose. As it stands right now, without manning, we're looking at another 3rd place finish, if that. With manning, I really believe we would be favorites for at least a wildcard. I think most people would put us ahead of the Jets. I just want a shot, a reason to get excited, playoff/superbowl POTENTIAL, and Manning brings that. I'll take the risk, and I also agree with alot of you that it might not be worth it for the Jets. The dolphins don't have that young quarterback with potential. We didn't just try the quick fix with a favre. But we do have a solid team that I believe is a quarterback away from competing for playoffs, and a great quarterback away from competeing for a superbowl, which most teams are, and peyton manning (if healthy) is.
If Manning was healthy there wouldn't be as much speculation about his status as there is. The fact that his reps leaked the equivalent of grainy footage of Manning throwing at Duke instead of crisp HD video tells you all you need to know about his physical condition at this point. He can sort of look good from a hundred feet away on iPod quality video but probably the flaws emerge with anything more revealing that that. The most likely scenario at this point is that Manning tries to get somebody to commit to a big guarantee now and then plays it by ear through the spring and summer the same way he did with the Colts last year. If it just doesn't work out he retires at the end of next season. He's probably fairly unlikely to try to get the Fins on the hook like this. He wants to be able to visit his vacation home without having people looking at him funny. If he can't get anybody on the hook for a big guarantee then he'll keep working the arm and trying to get it back where it needs to be and try to ignite a bidding war in June. If he actually gets back to 90% of where he was he has a shot at getting a real offer then. If he doesn't then he retires.
You don't get to 2 title games in 3 years w/ poor QB play, we can bash the QB all we want but he has shown a team can win big w/ him. brick may not be top 5 but he's still one of the better LTs in the game, he had a bad year this year but his overall body of work shows a really good LT Greene is complimentary back but he's a good one and we don't need to draft a RB. Keller is a good TE Harris is very underrated Mo showed enough as a rookie to convince me he'll be a player on this team for many years I think kerley will be a really good slot WR Our core talent matches up well w/ pretty much any team, where we fall short of Pitt and NE is at QB. In Baltimore most of their core guys are getting old and they have the same type of QB situation we have.
Miami has about 10-11 million in cap space, hasnt resigned any of their key UFA, has HUGE holes on the OL that need to be addressed if Peyton comes, and has to have money to sign any rookies that might draft. Not to mention they might have to sign Wayne as well to win the Peyton Sweepstakes. So yeah I truly honestly think that the Fins have to make some significant long term mistakes if they wanna bring Peyton aboard, and theyll be regretting it heavily as they enter a deep rebuilding phase for the following 5-10 years after Peytons departure.
Also keep this in mind. Miami lost Marc Columbo (as bad as he was he played), and probably Vernon Carey on the OL. Thats TWO starters gone, which means TWO starting offensive lineman are NEEDED. Now they could lose PROBABLY Langford, Solai, Merling all on their DL. Thats TWO starters on their defensive line. Then Jason Taylor retiring (another need to fill, he had 7 sacks last year). Another starter gone, another NEED created So in other words you guys need to free up at LEAST 10 million just to sign Peyton. Then you NEED to get a new RT (Columbos gone), new guard (Careys probably gone), an ENTIRE new defensive line, plus a new starting olb. Plus whatever needs you guys had before all this. You guys will be soo thin at key positions its gonna be a complete mess. Do you really think youll have a top 10 defense when you starting defensive line currently looks like Tony McDaniel, Ryan Baker, Randy Starks People don't realize but that team is going to be soooo fucked by the Peyton signing, that its gonna be an epic joke . And the strongest candidates they have to save cap space ? Moore (hes sure to be gone), reggie bush (starting hb), Yerimah Bell (suddenly safety becomes a huge need), Starks (only starter they have left on their defensive line), Fasano (gonna be nice when hes a Jet next year), Davone Bess, and Dan Carpenter. So yeah that teams a total clusterfuck, that defense will fall sooooo soooo sooo hard, so unless you think a crippled Peyton with 2 rookies on the OL will be top 5 offense, gl with those superbowl dreams Oh theyre also going to change their defense to a 4-3, which means even more growing pains should be expected on that team. Plus an entire coaching overhall, a Peyton Manning signing is gonna cripple them so bad, its gonna be great
Well first of all, as far as our defensive line goes, right now we have Mcdaniels, Starks, Odrick, and with a 4-3 cameron wake would move to defensive end. That's 2 pro bowlers a first round draft pick who played very well last year, and another who is very very solid. You can argue about Starks pro bowl, and I would agree that he didn't really deserve it this year, but I think he got in based on his play the year before which definately was pro bowl worthy. Merling never played and Solia doesn't fit a 4-3. Also, nobody knows if Langford is even going to leave yet. I don't think you can say we lost our ENTIRE defensive line. Not even close. I understand where your coming from, and I'm guessing you forgot about Odrick along with Wake moving to defensive end. Also, alot of what we played was a 4-3 last year. It wasn't our base, but we used it very often. Our left side from center over of our offensive line is fine. And if jake long stays healthy it can be dominant. I think right gaurd can be fixed by players on our team or free agency. IF we sign peyton I think there is a good chance we draft Reiff with our first round pick. I really think that would make for an above average line. Not dominant, but definately not a weekness. Reiff could struggle a little but overall he should be able to step right in and be alright. Also, admitably, I don't have a great understanding of our cap room, but from what I've heard we have anywhere from 10-15 million available. We can also restructure some contracts such as yeramiah bell, doesn't mean we have to cut him, but we could probably save a few million there. Also, we can carry over about 8 million from last year. That's enough to sign the rookies on its own. I really think you guys are making a bigger deal of the cap space thing than it really is. Don't you think guys would be more than willing to restructure if they new they were getting Manning? No gaurantees but I surely think so. Bottom line is, we have more cap space than you guys, and less holes to fill. Our holes are RT, OLB, QB, maybe S. Our first rounder will take care of 1 of those holes. Peyton Manning could take care of the other. We have a couple of young safties that are still developing, and I thought about it the other night, I wonder if jason taylor would want to come back if we got Manning. It's possible. I just don't think we have as many glaring holes as you guys think. Every team has holes, and they wont all be filled. But if we get Manning I gaurantee a top priority is fixing our line. I also don't see us being in cap hell. One thing our organization has done well is building our team through the draft. We've picked up a couple young cornerstone free agents, but the majority of our team was built in the draft, and we have a lot of solid players. I heard someone mention that the Jets have like 4 or 5 Studs and a bunch of average to below average guys. I think the dolphins have a 2-3 studs and a bunch of average to above average guys. We also have good depth. There's no saying how this Manning thing will turn out if he does come here. But again it's worth the risk, and I would be terrified if he went to the Jets. A great quarterback with a shitty team can make them playoff contenders. A great quarterback with an average team can make them superbowl contenders. Basically, if we get manning you couldn't make fun of dolphins fans for thinking we could go to the superbowl. Manning brings those possibilities. If you think the Dolphins would have absolutely 0 chance of doing that, which as of now they do, then you don't understand football and the value a great qb can have. Also, if you think Manning would turn you guys into superbowl contenders, I don't see why he couldn't do the same for us. Of course, all of this is predicated on if he comes back healthy. And when it comes to that, how can you doubt Manning?
You have a good DL, the LBs are a bit overrated, Burnett is average, dansby is good but a tad overrated, Wake had a good 1st year taking the league by surprise but he's not a great pass rusher, your corners are overrated, you don't have good safety's and again your D got it going after falling to 0-7 and now you have a new DC and new system. Your left side is fine but what about the right side of the OL? $10-15 mil in cap space of which Peyton will eat up most of it. You still need an every down RB, Bush is a nice pass catcher he's not a guy who is going to carry the load despite a good year last year. What WRs do you have other than Marshall? you don't have a good pass catching TE The dolphins have one "stud"- the LT. You'd have no shot at a SB w/ Peyton and that has more to do w/ Peyton who had much better talent around him in his prime in Indy and barely won a SB(throwing 3 TDs and 7 INTs in that postseason). How is he going to go to Miami where they have decent talent that he has never played w/, coming off major injury, being advanced in age and being in a new system for the first time and lead Miami to a SB? If he's healthy I think you'd be a one and done in the playoffs as a WC team w/ the talent around him as of now. How can I doubt Manning? 9-10 postseason record one and done SEVEN times 4 home playoff losses leads O to 14 PPG in 10 playoff losses only led O to more than 20 pts in ONE postseason loss(and he threw 2 critical INTs in that game to cost his team the game) This is how I can doubt him.
what you first said. Sanchez has a very good arm, and play making skills, it's his decision making thats weak, and He's YOUNG for a 3 year starter. Sitting behind a much better decision maker, with McElroy as a 3rd stringer would keep the franchise set at the QB position for a more than a Decade....(barring catastrophe) That has the possibility of taking Sanchez from 'well above average QB' potential, to Elite QB potential. (Sort of like Steve Young being behind Montana, and thats How Tanny should be selling it)
I was asking how can you doubt Peyton will come back healthy. the guy is one of the hardest working quarterbacks of all time, I'm sure he'll be healthy, but w/e. We have 2 studs in Long and Marshall. I don't know how you can say he isn't, but most people would disagree. If Marshall isn't a stud, then neither is Harris or Brick or pretty much anybody but Revis and Mangold. Our linebackers are good. Dansby is a top 10 guy IMO. He might be a little overrated, mostly by himself, but he's still very good. Burnett is average to above average. Wake is one of the best. He just needs another guy opposite him to take the pressure off. He led the league in quarterback hurries last year. Profootballfocus rated him as the best OLB last year. He's a top 10 OLB IMO. Our linebackers are also very versitile and 3 down guys. So I would say our linebackers are good. Better than yours. Our cornerbacks are decent. Vontae Davis is very good. He's got pro bowl potential in his near future. The others are questionable. yeramiah bell is getting old but he is a very good strong safety. He made the pro bowl just a couple years ago. Always has over 100 tackles. Cornerbacks aren't as good, but I would say Vontae is better than Cromartie, and we have better safties. I already said how we would fix our right side. It's 2 players. We can have a guy already on our roster play RG, and draft Reiff with our 1st pick. You don't think that would fix it? Reggie Bush played great last year, and we also have Daniel Thomas. He didn't play great and was a little dinged up all year, but he's a bruising back that can take the load off. We also signed the guy from the canadian football league that was the MVP. I'm not saying these players are great, but we have depth, and as of now our Running Backs are better than yours. We have Marshall, arguable a top 10 guy. Bess who alot of people say is a premier slot recievers, Hartline who is a good 3rd reciever. We aren't stacked by any means but we have plenty of talent. We also have a speedy deep threat in gates. Reggie Wayne also said he would like to come to Miami, and Reggie is one of the best recieving backs. Our recievers are plenty good enough, and again, better than yours. You don't think Marshall, Wayne, Hartline as a 4th, and Bess in the slot, with reggie coming out of the backfield is a good offense? I sure do. It would be much better than what the Jets have. Fasano is an average recieving tight end, but a great blocker. We also never use him so it's hard to get a good value of him, but he rarely drops passes. Obviously we're never going to agree on this. And I 100% agree with you that Peyton is a different player in the playoffs. That's one reason I have been kinda cautious about wanting him. But luckily with us he doesn't have to carry the load. If you think he could take the Jets to the superbowl, which I'm kinda guessing you don't, but if any Jet fan does, then he can definately take us to it. I think once you make the playoffs anything could happen. So if he makes us a playoff team, then he makes us one of the 12 best teams, and a superbowl CONTENDER. We haven't been able to CONTEND for a superbowl in forever, and that's what I'm excited about. Also we have 10-15 million cap space right now. We have 9 Million that can be carried over from last year. And we can still restructure contracts, which I'm sure alot of players would be willing if they new they would be playing with peyton. So that's over 20 million. I don't think the cap will be much of an issue.
Do I doubt that peyton will work as hard as he possibly can to come back? absolutely not, I know he will but sometimes it's not in the control of the player, you can't make a blind man see know matter how determined he is. Marshall is not a stud, he's a very good possession WR who should be much better than he is w/ his immense physical skills. reggie played great when the dolphins were 0-6 and the season was over. We don't have a #2 WR right now so your WRs are better than ours but if we get Braylon or a quality #2 we'll have a better WR corps though you'd have the best WR. I think we'd have a better chance for a SB w/ Sanchez than Peyton. I don't want to give up on a young QB who has helped us reach 2 title games.
We actually agree for once for the most part. There's no gaurantee Peyton will come back healthy, but if I had to bet I would say he will. But it is a risk. I don't like the seasons over excuse, the teams we played against still tried to stop him, and they couldn't. I think he'll be good again next year if he stays healthy, but that remains to be seen. I think Marshalls a stud, but your entitiled to your opinion. If he can put up the stats he has with bad qb's, I think he wouuld thrive with a good one. Over 100 receptions 3 strait years is pretty impressive. The guy has top 10 stats anyways. I think if you guys got braylon, our recievers would be pretty even. I think reggie bush may put us over the top, and if we got Reggie Wayne I think we would clearly be better. Again, just my opinion. I really think Bess can be a great slot reciever, but it's hard to tell when he doesn't have a qb that can get him the ball. Holmes is much better than his stats showed, but he didn't have a qb or an OC that could help him. I think you guys would have a better chance with a HEALTHY peyton, but there aren't any gaurantees of that, and I agree that you shouldn't give up on Sanchez. I don't think he's ever going to develop into anything more than a game manager, but the Jets have invested too much money and time to give up now. You gotta give him a chance with a new OC. I guess my main thing is, if the Jets are superbowl contenders with Manning, which most people say they would be, I think the dolphins are too. And again, there aren't any gaurantees, but I just want something to get excited about and be hopeful. Manning brings superbowl POSSIBILITIES. We don't have that without him. It's worth the risk for the dolphins. Maybe not for the Jets, but definately for us.
Even Peyton Manning won't guarantee he can get back to playing shape at his peak performance levels at this point. He keeps saying he's progressing and hopes the progress continues. You want to know what the ultimate mindfuck for the NFL is going to be? What if nobody will commit to an offer with enough guarantees for Peyton to sign but a half dozen teams stay interested anyway, all spring through the draft and then stretching into the summer? This could be the Peyton Manning reality show in a long-running format with the ultimate reality being Peyton retiring just before camp opens because he still can't throw it better than 80% or so. That would be like last summer only he's a free agent this time not a Colt.
With Wake playing DE you know what that means, now you need TWO starting OLB. Misi who knows what you guys will do with him, but so far hes showing strong promise at being a bust. Thats not exactly an easy/cheap position to fill. You got Odrick moving from the end to DT (probably) so thatll be an interesting learning curve. Starks lets just be honest, hes not that great. Hes not bad but definitely not great. And dude, losing TWO starters on the OL is huge, thats half your fricken offensive line. Just to sign Peyton + your two rookies you NEED to free up at least 15 million. How much money do you think you guys can save from restructuring contracts ? 40 million ? Good luck with that I dont see how you can realistically resign Langford if Peyton goes there, so its almost certain that hes gone. You guys will have to mortgage your future far worse than the Jets recently did, mostly because youre gonna be forced to cut key contributors. Not to mention Fasano doesn't exactly fill the shoes of a Peyton Manning TE either. This dream that your entire team is gonna concede to 30-40 million in paycuts/restructuring is laughable. And when you combine an imobile QB coming off major neck surgeries with an entirely MAKESHIFT offensive line (that right side is gonna be a total nightmare) there is no way that can end well for you, none. I truly think you guys have a better shot @ the playoffs with Moore than you do Peyton, which is why I truly hope the fins go all in on Peyton. Oh also youre gonna fix RG by players on your team or free agency ? How good of a RG do you expect to get when youre completely cap strapped ? So youre talking a cheap ass FA + a rookie RT, with old injured Peyton lol
Peyton isnt going to the Fins. I just get this feeling Peyton is avoiding 5 divisions. These 5 divisions are the AFC East, AFC North, NFC South, NFC East, NFC North. I believe the only 3 divisions he will play for are the AFC West, NFC West, and AFC South. I think he is going choose a division that gives him a free ride to a division title. I really think hes going to join the Broncos at this moment. Maybe the Texans, but hell no hes not joining the Phins over the Broncos because he scared of Brady and would rather play him in the playoffs than twice in the regular season and have to settle with wildcards berth possibly. If he goes to the Broncos, hes winning 12-15 games every year and will get a bye easily.
