Doug Plank...can't find actual stats...but part of the Bears defense in the 70's and early 80's. Solid 6'0 and 200 lbs back then. Look at his highlight videos on Youtube...short but show some good stuff and what we are missing on defense
Sadly, I think if anyone will employ a hybrid position on these tight ends it will be Belichick first.
The first player that came to my mind after redaing this post was Nnamndi Asomugha. He was a safety coming out of Cal, but was converted to a corner by the Raiders. He is quite big for a CB at 6'2 and 215 lbs. Don't know where I'm going with this as he is probably a lock to be a corner until he retires, considering how he didn't pan ou that well as a safety in the NFL and there's no chance that he'll be joining the Jets any time soon in the near future. He was just the player that first came to my mind regarding the physical dimensions and described skillset.
I said he has the physical tools, if he can learn how to cover then his physical make up is ideal to defend, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Vernon Davis, guys we face next year
Has there never been a 220 pound Safety that can cover? Reed (~200lbs) and the other Balt Safety did a good job keeping Gronk and Hernandez in check last game.
John Lynch covered pretty well at 6'2" 220. With a 4.64 40 he would have matched up pretty well against Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez.
Great topic for a thread. I heard discussions on this recently. Basically it may come down to using the same player you would use as a TE to cover the TE. Have the player play TE, learn routes or whatever, then have them play the other side of the ball to cover the TE. That player shadows a TE, or if they spread their offense, they cover the person in the slot.
players such as this already exist aka Mark Barron...we should draft this in the first round http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=81868&draftyear=2012&genpos=SS
On the other hand, instead of creating a new position in the defense, if you have a monster pass rusher, you'll make the offense keep someone in to block and you'll also force them into more running situations where these guys are on the line blocking and don't get to use their athletic pass-catching skills downfield.
not saying reed isn't an all pro or anything, gronk getting hurt also helped the ravens, but couldn't capitalize
Maybe Rex will create a new 2-5 defense vs 3-4 where the 5th LB is 'this hybrid guy' and the 2 lineman are 500 pounds each and can run a 4.4 40. For what i'ts worth I've been laughed off here at least 10 times in the last 6 months for screaming at Rex to try Maybin at hybrid safety/lb. It would keep him on the field for all 3 downs, not just 3rd and long. I love the idea.
Imo, and this is just a thought, but one potential downside in having the safety cover the TE as a primary responsibility is he would have to either play up or forego the chance to bump the TE coming off the line. And if the safety is playing up like that, well he's not really playing safety, is he? It's difficult to follow watching on TV as I do, but it has seemed to me that the Jet D typically defends these better TE's by having the front seven, meaning really the LB's, handle the TE and, if he's going out on a passing play, hand him over to either a safety or a cornerback. But this leaves holes in the seams, and if the TE is running a proper route, the db often has to catch up to him while the TE has left one of the Jets' too slow LB's panting several steps behind him. While this approach has imo proven to be inadequate, I understand why they use it - unless and until the TE reveals he is running a passing route, the safety needs to stay back to cover his primary responsibility. THe #1 and #2 cb's are typically preoccupied with the opponents' wideouts, or alternatively the backfield is in zone coverage. (Digression - imo zone coverage, which we saw the Jets use more of this past season, is problematic for the Jet D since it tends to take away from the strength derived from the ability of Revis and Cro to play man coverage.) Maybe the answer is to modify the basic set and have the 3-4 go to a 3-3 with five db's, one of whom would be dedicated to covering the TE. The question then becomes first whether a CB or safety would be the better matchup, and then who specifically on the roster would be the candidate. Yes, that sounds problematic when one considers who we might be talking about. Since Revis can't play two positions at once, taking him off the opponent's best wideout would seem to create more problems than it solves. Perhaps Cro, but all the other db's seem either too small or too slow. Cro is maybe too light for this role at 210, but he's faster than any of the safeties and is at 6'2" probably tall enough for the role. Ftr I am not suggesting Cro play this role, because of what it takes it away from, but I do think he can come closest in terms of his size and speed. But... the problem with ANY Db playing this role is that they will lose something in run D, particularly if you play 5 db's in your base set. So... I think the ultimate answer will have to involve taking on this role from a base position of linebacker. The problem right now for the Jets with that concept is no LB on the roster would appear to have the skills and build for the role. But if one could be found, it would be worth pursuing. Among other things having one would allow the CB's to play more man coverage, and the safeties would be able to focus more on their primary responsibility.
One of the best defenses in NFL history had a safety in the box on about two thirds of the plays. That was the '85 Bears and Buddy Ryan's 46. That defense featured a strong 4-3 front with lots of pressure off of the ends, both corners on the line of scrimmage in a bump and run man coverage scheme and Doug Plank playing somewhere in the box on each play. They only had one man deep and even he was just 12-15 yards off of the line of scrimmage on most plays. The defense was called the 46 because it had 4 down linemen and 6 other guys really close to the line of scrimmage. The defense was designed to stop both the WCO, with its heavy emphasis on attacking the 7 yards from the line of scrimmage, and the power rushing attack favored by the Redskins with John Riggins running behind the Hogs. The defense went out of style when the Cowboys went to a power rushing attack with a ton of vertical play-action off of the runs.
You dont need a hybrid, you need a safety with size and strength. *cough* Mark Barron *cough* A guy who grew up playing TE is not going to become a good enough defender quickly enough to last in the NFL. And if he is a good TE, no team will switch him to offense. I have read that the Jets were grooming Mauga to be able to cover the new breed of TE's. But its one thing to cover Keller in practice. Quite another to cover Gronk in a real game.
Mark Barron is a late 1st to mid 2nd round talent. He's a wonderful prospect but it's not clear he's suited to cover the likes of Rob Gronkowski. The Jets wouldn't hurt themselves getting him in the 2nd round but I think taking him on the 16 is probably a stretch. Given that the Jets have not had a 1st round pick turn into a great player since 2007 I think we're better off getting a guy with more certainty on the 16. The 1st round picks are what are killing the franchise lately.
The problem is that teams don't use guys that have the size/athleticism of Sean Taylor to play safety. It's not like the NFL is hurting for guys that are 6'3, 220 with 4.4/4.5s, it's just that they're playing WR (many not very well). Colleges are more focused on putting these kids at impact positions like WR because they know the play to play value there FAR outweighs a safety. Plus, kids can succeed in the college game just with size without much receiving skill, so why bother teaching them safety (which, to be good, requires instincts and intelligence).
I cannot disagree more about Barron. He is the type of talent that you will regret not taking one day. Who do you want at 16 that helps this team? Richardson will be gone. Upshaw will be gone. The qb's will be gone. Kalil will clearly be gone. Blackmon will be gone. So, who is this safe pick that I am missing? The pass rusher from Illinois? If he is as good as people claim, he will probably be gone too. So who are you taking that helps this team?
