Money aside, and this applies to our team as well should we try and get Peyton, why gamble and pay huge for a QB coming off a missed season and multiple surgeries? Who know's if he'll be 100%. On the other hand, Luck may/may not end up having a Manning/Brady type career, but he's young and healthy.
Now you're just being retarded. Brady would have gotten looks on other teams and they would have seen how talented he is. To think that BB somehow turned him into a great player from nothing is just ridiculous.
Hah people are delusional. The Colts have cleaned house, are removing their star players. Even with Peyton, that team isnt winning anything. They are moving on, and if you think otherwise you are wrong.
Peyton lost to one of the greatest choking D's of all time in Miami in 2000, he was SHUT OUT by our 2002 jets D, he did nothing at home against ten in 1999. Only twice did they lose to NE, MAYBE he cost them in 2003 but in '04 they wouldn't have got past Pitt just as they didn't at home a year later. Peyton and the Colts lost to: Ten Mia NYJ twice NE twice Pitt SD twice NO
of course they aren't winning anything now w/ Peyton, when he was in his prime and he had elite talent he barely won one(in a postseason where he had one great half of a game and did very little else)
Your nuts. How hard is it to believe that 3 neck surgeries will significantly affect Mannings throwing motion? His accuracy? The arm strength? Could he be 100% healthy, and the same pre-surgery? i guess, but the chance are definately greater the surgeries affected his throwing ability in some way. (remember Adam Schein pointed out on Jets PGL after the dolphins fiasco, Manning still couldnt throw a football) Speaking of ignorant people, have you looked at the surgeries? Watched the video posted in this thread of the procedure manning had done? No? didnt think so. BTW doctors do this thing called consulting. (not saying the poster you directed this at is an actual doctor) but they can take their experiences in relation to similar injuries (or surgeries in this case) and can make general statements about the overall health of an individual prior to a procedure, as well as after it, and general recovery times etc, etc. So yes doctors would comment on this type of thing and give general statements, most likely indicating that the average recovery time is X months long, but that each case has its own intricacies that only his acting physicians can attest to in terms of the severity of the injuries and the procedures that took place. How does Manning coming here not set us back 5 years? We pay him tons of money, we move Sanchez (as Junc has so adeptly pointed out in this thread, the first good young QB this franchise has had since Kenny O'Brien that had the moxie and It factor). Its been a long time since we had that, why would we give it up? Mark Sanchez has won 32 games in his 3 year career. Wanna know how many have done that in their first 3 years (Postseason included)? 3guys ever, Dan Marino, Joe Flacco and Mark Sanchez. Mark won 4 road postseason games, as many as anyone in NFL history. As you saw with Matt Ryan, Matt Stafford and Andy Dalton young QB's don't win on the road in the playoffs every day even with good teams around them. Mark did that 4 times. Oh and he has 11 4th quarter comebacks in 3 years. Thats MORE THAN ANY OTHER QB in the same time span. So aside from possibly tossing aside a franchise QB, the money we pay Manning prevents us from filling our other holes. In fact I predict our defense falls off a fucking cliff next year if we dont infuse some youth into our LB corps. Something we won't be able to do by paying Manning. Even if he makes it 2 years for us, we have no future franchise QB on the roster, our defense will be old as shit, Brick and Mangold will be 30, Holmes almost undoubtably would be gone. Reggie Wayne (the presumed #1 that follows Mannign wherever) will be old as dirt and that leaves us without a receiving corps. So yes if manning was 100% we would have a shot, because elite Qb's do mask deficiencies, but not all of them, and they can't overcome all issues (see Rdogers and Brees losing this weeked) all the time. But if we don't win it all in Mannings first year, we are fucked, and it would cost us 5 years of time to try and rebuild the stuff we got rid of to bring in Peyton. Oh and it would cost our coaching staff and GM their jobs. Andrew Luck's come around once every 12 years, so we would be trying to rebuild 3 years from now, with no hope of an elite QB prospect sitting there when we draft at #1 overall.
(this is from a recent study done a Yale university) Heres a breakdown of the the percentages. (Peyton Manning is represented as "PM" and Mark Sanchez as "MS") 50% of PM is = to 500% of 100% of MS So MS = 10% of 100% of PM In other words Peyton Manning is still 5x < Mark Sanchez at only 50%.
Obviously you sir, have never known (or personally been) a person who had significant neck surgery. I watched my mom go through neck fusions (Peyton had one) and a handful of other surgeries. She's a fucking NURSE (Not a professional football player with the chances to get hit by 350 lb men all the time) and she was never the same again, she never was able to work again in the ER, and after the last one, she was forced to retire, that was 5 years ago, and shes only 51 (just turned yesterday). So she will never work again because of her multiple neck surgeries which were spaced out over the course of a Decade. Peyton has had 3 surgeries in 12 months, One of which was done to fix a previous surgery that wasnt healing properly. So no I do not have a Doctorate in neuroscience, but I do have a Masters in Life Sciences (AKA Biology) while I pursue Pre-Med (starting in the fall) But I damn well can expect from my own personal experiences that Peyton won't be the same guy. My mom couldnt go back to Nursing in an ER, no she wasnt a pro athlete before, but she wasnt going back to a pro athletes position either. Peyton will be a different player after this, you can count on it. He just isnt the same guy. These surgeries fuck with your range of motion and that will affect his throwing motion and his arm strength. Maybe Peyton's surgeries werent highly invasive (dont count on it) or he's superman and can actually return to playing, but he will be affected don't doubt that for a second. Peyton may receive a 100% clean bill of health, but he will suffer after effects on the field. Plus there is the rust to rub off after a year out of football, plus learning a new offense and adjusting to new targets, all while trying to return to the throwing motion that he hasnt executed in over a year. He wn't be nearly as precise as he was before. We all saw with Plax this year, what time out of football does to a guy.
Why in the hell would Yale do a study like this? In other words, link please also thats 50% of pre-neck surgery, pre-out of football for 12 months, pre I havent so much as thrown a football in 365 days Peyton Manning. I'm willing to bet its different now. Especially when our current offense, is not Peyton mannings offense...
Thanks, I've been hanging out at a different board of late. Been checking back in periodically, but the craziness thats taken over TGG is something else. Statements needed to be made to help try and restore some sanity to the general population. All i can say is glad somebody agrees.
This is an excellent post, and it will undeservedly earn the reply of 'Yeah well being a med student doesn't mean you're a doctor and your mom didn't have the best surgeons in the world like Manning does.' Probably from a guy that had never heard the term 'Anterior Cervical Fusion' until about 20 posts ago, yet is just fine and dandy with the team throwing a truckload of cash at a 36 year old QB who underwent one not long ago.
Parcells had no choice. He was hired for a very specific purpose: to win a Super Bowl by 1998. He almost got it done. Leon Hess hired him because he was dying and had only a couple of years to live at the outside. He gave Parcells a blank check and said: give me a Super Bowl. Parcells would have picked Manning if he was operating under normal conditions, but he wasn't and he knew there was no way to win a Super Bowl with a rookie at the helm and very unlikely with a second year QB. Since then the conventional wisdom has been stood on it's head by both Brady and the Pats and Roethlisberger and the Steelers but up to that point you just didn't win Super Bowls with QB's that young.
thanks and I expecose responses. I just couldnt sit there and let a guy say "if you arent a doctor..." that bullshit. Frankly I havent been exposed to anything pre-med wise in relation to neck surgeries, but my moms experiences are relatable. no she didnt have the best doctors in the world, but hers are very good. She couldnt go back to nursing. Because peyton had the very best he MAY be able to return to the field and play. But just because he can return to the field, doesnt mean he will still be the old peyton manning. In addition, even if you think the medical stuff is hocus pocus and has NO bearing on Peytons ability to return to form, then explain why he'll be peyton after a year off of not throwing. PLax is a good example of a player being out of football for a while, and not performing up to old standards. Carson Palmer is another example of a QB who wasn't really throwing, who planned on being retired before the move to Oakland, and wasnt in pro football shape before the move. You all saw how he struggled in Oakland to get on the same page with his WR. No Carson wasnt manning before the surgeries, but I wouldnt be shocked if thats what peyton looks like next year if he does set foot on a field with all things considered.
To be fair we shouldn't be comparing any medical treatment that normal folks receive to Peyton Manning. You know he's getting the best treatment money can buy anywhere in the world, world renown doctors, and probably edge breaking top of the line treatments that insurance would never cover for us normal folks. Not to be a dick, but as a med student myself, I'm sure anything that we know is based on a normal scenario within normal paramaters, none of which applies to Peyton manning at all due to his wealth and celebrity
Which is why I said it wasnt the same care, but the ideas the same. Manning will suffer some ill effects, hell I don't think the retirement talk is that crazy. He probably will return to the field, but I just don't think he will ever look like the same guy. I equate it to a RB who had knee surgery. it never feels quite right again they may be able to play, but they don't physically react the way they used too. Plus there is a the fear factor, of whats going to happen if I get lit up again?
Nobodys giving him a monster contract without seeing what he can do. These guys (owners) didn't become billionaires by being morons
