Real bad attitude last year right? Winning solves everything. We didn't win, Holmes got frustrated and quit. Messages can still be sent without cutting him. Look at Big Ben in Pitt somehow still hanging around with two rape allegations. An "elite franchise" as you called them.
We're talking about the same Ben Roethlisberger that seems to played through injuries seemingly his entire career, right? There's a guy that hasn't quit on his team no mattter how much pain he's been in. Big Ben's a lot of things, but I bet all his teammates are extremely happy to have a QB of his caliber and mental fortitude. You can't say the same for santonio.
You initially said "The coaches don't even have the courage to publicly criticize him. An elite coach like belichick or Tomlin wouldn't stand for this." Has Tomlin come out criticized Holmes or Big Ben ever? Holmes for his attitude/ weed and Big Ben for his stuff? I don't think so. Behind closed doors, maybe, but we don't know that. I never said Tone didn't quit. I said winning solves everything, because last year we had a player trying until 16 seconds left in OT in a terrible offensive showcase in Cleveland. Same player who was still hustling in Pitt in last years Championship game. If we win, he will be fine. Do you think Randy Moss magically changed when he reached NE? No, he wanted to win and in 07 you guys were winning.
I don't think anyone can "magically" have a change of heart as cute as you may think that is, but i do believe it's possible with hard work. I'm not saying that he absolutely will or won't, just that i'm willing to see if he can make that change, especially with all that comes with cutting him. In a conversation involving "laughable and unjustifiable" actions as you put them, i do think spy-gate is relevant since you mention elite people like belichick not standing for unsportsmanlike actions, but committing them? I DO think he's an elite coach by the way, but that wasn't my point.
Well made point on tomlin- although I would say this, the difference is those transgressions were made off the field- when it gets to the point where you don't show up to team meetings, bench yourself in (what basically was) a playoff game, and teammates tell you to get the hell out of the huddle I would think that either of those coaches would suspend or cut the player.
A 12 million dollar accelerated cap hit in 2012 can make you want to reform a player, even one that is hopeless.
Well you could argue getting suspended as Big Ben did in Pitt is just as bad as not showing up. Put your team in a big hole. As in NE, we will never know if a player missed a meeting because nothing leaks out. I do think Ocho must have done something to see very little playing time. There is a difference in NE also because Bill is basically HC/GM which is much more power than being just the HC or GM.
The word is that Schottenheimer benched Holmes after the way he was acting, but I agree that he should be disciplined in some way. Just cutting him at this time and place doesn't make much sense for the team if they want to fill in the holes they have this off season.
Here's a newsflash for you : Back then, there was no BIG MONEY to be made like there is now. Plus, it was a different climate and culture back then. Today with the NFL being more of a BUSINESS and with Free Agency the way it is, Players like Walker, Toon, and Moore who are BOTH Talented *and* full of Class are a rare breed these days. You either get those who have CLASS but not enough talent or you take the risk of getting those with a checkered past but have the TALENT needed to help your football team win games. It's quite the dilemma. Also, recall that when Mangini was here, his point was to get CLASS players.....but as it always is, their Talent did not equal their class. I'd argue that Braylon was the Best offensive player on the team when he was here. I've always known that Holmes is a #2 receiver that needs other TALENTED receivers to take some of the attention away from him to be effective in the passing game. IMO, the only way this is going to work now with Holmes is if Tanny brings back the player who made Holmes look all-world last year. And lo and behold, he's actually a guy who is a talent that Tanny will get a chance(if he's smart) to re-sign again. Don't f it up, Bean-counter man. Braylon Edwards says Hi. How quickly we all forget THAT... Holmes does not do all that "clutch" stuff if Braylon wasn't there to take away some of the attention/focus from Tone. It would probably be how it was this year instead....
That's for sure. The Jets made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. If this BS happens last year, Holmes is obviously gone. Now that he is under a huge contract, the Jets are backed into a corner and they have little choice but to hope and pray he can be reformed and forgiven by his teammates.
This is such a stupid thread... no offense but honestly the Jets take a $12M cap hit and they dont have Holmes... lose lose get over it hes gunna be a jet next year
Bring back Braylon and Cotch and trade Holmes (better to suck it up and accept the mistake in signing him long term now). Draft an OT in the first round and a SS in the second. Hey, I can dream.
It's such a shitty situation. The entire team (players, coaches, trainers, owner, you name it) needs to treat him like an outcast, give him the cold shoulder and come at him in mini-camps, ota's, and preseason if he's still on the team until he falls in line or ends up on the IR. When I say "come at him" I mean hit him like he's between you and the superbowl and he needs to be tackled to win. Rookie dorm for Hofstra this year.
It's only 7.5 unless we keep him for the first two weeks..something like that...but still, 7.5 there..maybe another 4 for Scott., another 5 for Sanchez...it's not anything any team can just absorb.
It's $12.75 if he is cut before the second week of February (however the salary another team pays him offsets up to $7.75MM, so if he got $7.75M or more it is $5M, though the Jets have to hold the $12.75M in cap space open until he signs) however if the don't cut him before the roster date in February another $7.75M become guaranteed bringing it to $20.25M. A trade means only a $5M hit, which if traded for a pick means they actually free up $4.25M. http://www.nyjetscap.com/2011_Post/toneholmescut.php
I know. for a trade it doesn't matter, only the $5M dead cap hit stays, the rest of the guaranteed $15.5M goes to the team that trades for him. The decision to make before February is whether to cut him. If you think he will be tradeable or can be part of the team you hang onto him, if you can't trade him or keep him and are willing to take the huge cap hit (they aren't) then you have to cut him by February.
More like: Agent: "I got offers for you from the Jets and X. The Jets are offering $1 more, but I don't recommend the Jets." Player: "$1 more? Really? Hell ya I wanna play for the Jets!!!"
