It's week 7 of year 6. Somewhere in here a light bulb is going to go on in Woody Johnson's thought patterns on this issue. I don't know when, but he's not being served particularly well by the people running his football operation when an offensive coordinator is still trying to find himself in his 6th year on the job.
You seem intent on ignoring other problems with the team. Keep your post intact up to the word "when", and see how well you can come up with anything else, simply anything, that has nothing to do with Brian Schottenheimer. Bet you can't.
Brian Schottenheimer is the second longest serving part of the problem that is the Jet's inability to win a Super Bowl. Terry Bradway is the first. If we were having this conversation in year 4 of Schotty's reign as OC I'd see some of your points. He wouldn't have had enough opportunity at that point to conclusively prove that his offensive schemes were mediocre and unlikely to ever be a positive factor for the Jets. He wasn't working on his 4th QB at the time and still not getting where the franchise needs to be. Seriously, do you think we should go get another QB to see if the 5th time is the charm for Brian Schottenheimer? Do you really think that the point of the offensive side of the ball is to develop an offensive coordinator so that QB's coming in have a chance to succeed for more than a few games at a time? I just don't get it. The Jets offense has been mediocre for years under Schottenheimer. We had a competent incumbent when he arrived and that didn't work out. The guy had a wonderful season for somebody else after he left. We traded for a future hall of famer and that didn't work out. The guy had a wonderful season for somebody else after he left. We drafted a top 5 QB in the draft and many people think that's not working out. What do we have to do to make Brian Schottenheimer worth anything? Teleport Flash Gordon in from Mars to be the Jet's QB? Again, do we need to see Mark Sanchez go somewhere else, maybe to the LA team, and turn into a great QB there to finally understand that Brian Schottenheimer just isn't a particularly good OC? You don't develop offensive coordinators at the expense of every other part of the team. No rational team does that and yet here we are with Schotty under the gun (again) and the Jets chances hanging in the balance (again) while his head coach forcibly changes his game plan (again.) Enough.
You're still missing the point. And I can see there are several reasons why. First of all, if you put aside your blaming all past problems on him just for a second, tell me what it is about the Jets' previous history that meant that Mark Sanchez HAS TO be a great UNLESS the OC fucks him up? There have been plenty of first round Qb selections who did not work out, and it's not always due to the CS staff he went to. I am not saying BS does not share in the blame for the poor performance of the O, and of Sanchez in particular. But I look at the games, too, and I see Sanchez making mistakes I can't for the life of me blame on BS. Second, your Qb history argument is full of holes. Favre was a one off - what he did or didn't do had as little to do with who the OC was as could have been the case. He did what he wanted to do. And he was doing quite well until he got injured. Next. Clemens. I think he was poorly used by the whole CS and FO, but at the same time he just didn't make hte most of the limited chances given him. Hard to blame that all on BS, particularly given that the HC also has alot of imput on when and whether you put your backup Qb in the game. Chadwick. His career was marked by long periods of being injured, not playing. Mix in that he was incapable of bringing a team back from a more than one score deficit with less than 20 minutes in the game, and that his limintations allowed capable opponents to game plan him into a box. His year with Miami coincided with their using the Wildcat, which many teams were not prepared for. Too many variables to blame BS for Chad's uneven play. I am also for moving on. Might as well. My problem is with people like you who like to think that all the Jets have to do is get rid of Schotty and we will enter the land of milk and honey. I am guessing that will not happen.
I can't remember one post by anyone who said that the only thing holding us back is Schotty and, by axing him, we'll be in the SB. Just out of curiosity, how long do you want to wait for the Jets to have a potent - or even just balanced - Offense under Schottenheimer? 7 years? 10 years?
My argument basically is that when you have an ongoing problem the last thing you want to do is just leave everything in place and hope it gets better. You clearly see that the Jets have an ongoing problem on the offensive side of the ball. You wouldn't be ok with moving on and letting go of Schotty unless you had a basic understanding that something wasn't right on that side of the ball. Once you get to the point of admitting there's a problem the question becomes where do you go to fix the problem? If you replace Sanchez then you're effectively reverting us back to where we were after Favre left but before Sanchez had been drafted. We have nobody suitable to play QB for us on a regular basis and we don't know where the next opportunity to acquire a serviceable QB will come from. Even assuming that we revert in that fashion we have no idea if Brian Schottenheimer can develop a young QB in the pressure cooker that is New York and we have no idea if he can work effectively with any other QB that is not already hall of fame bound. We have no evidence to support the idea that bringing in a new QB not named Peyton Manning will be an improvement over what we have seen for 5 of the last 6 seasons. I see where you're coming from with the idea that this might be Sanchez and not Schottenheimer that is causing the current problem. I just don't see where we have any evidence that keeping Schotty and dumping Sanchez is going to improve our situation based on Schotty's skills and I *know* that it is going to be 100x harder to find a suitable replacement for Sanchez than for Schotty. It's kind of simple math. Can't stay the same and expect better. One component is very expensive and newer and one is fairly cheap and older. Which one do you switch out?
Depending on who the new guy is, is a gamble. But, Sanchez, is clearly talented. Schotty, not so much.
CONTINUE WITH BASHING! hes is never going to be able to get it done. the sooner we get him outa here the better. promote callahan if theres no one else available. 2 things we need in an OC. someone who can utilize his weapons based on a defense's weaknesses. someone who can swallow his pride, chuck his gameplay out the window, and adjust when its not working.
RichCimini Rich Cimini Ryan, addressing slow starts, has met with Sanchez. Also solicited input from assts Callahan, Sutton, Westhoff. No Schotty mention. #Jets just sayin'...
Yeah, see... This, on top of the fact that a couple of weeks ago, Rex went to Cav to implement the buzzer idea and get the offense on track, and to try to make them more efficient, and to try to get the timing between Mark, the o-line, and WRs/TEs on track... It just seems like more and more the past couple of weeks, there's a pattern of going around Schotty. Maybe I'm off base. But, if there's already any potential concern he's losing the players, and now we've got Rex meeting with Sanchez, and then consulting with other coaches about the offense, but Schotty isn't included on the input.
I'm not speculating on one thing or the other. Just saying the pot is beginning to stir. EDIT: But I will say this....if Sutton is being sought out for his input regarding the offense, and Schotty isn't. That's not a good sign. :smile: Provided that this is actually true, and Cimini isn't blowing his usual smoke up his readers' asses.
That's a good way to put it. The pot does seem to be stirring, yup. Also, I checked it out. Rex said it in his presser, in response to the very last question, so it's definitely true. He acknowledged he went to them and met with Mark, etc. The connotation of what he said, was that he went to them, and was, "leaning on" those coaches, trying to get input to try to get the offense off to a better start, etc.
Look, in fairness to you I do see you now and then on other threads criticizing other aspects of what goes into making the O. My real gripe is that in your extended critiques of Schotty, I rarely see any acknowledgement that there are other problems than with him. Ftr I do not think Sanchez is a bust. But I see plenty of problems with him that have nothing to do with playcalling. We have seen him lock on receivers. Have happy feet. Overthrow or throw to the back shoulder of receivers. Throw INT's that are just plain stupid. Kill plays and then the play that's run sucks. We've seen him even look nervous, like a deer in the headlights. Hold onto the ball too long. Let the clock run down too often. None of those things imo have to do with the playcalling. In fact as an OC expected to work with a Qb who does those sorts of things, you would not be doing your job if you did not take those limitations into account when you decide what plays to call. That's why I have no real patience anymore for complaints about the playcalling. Guess what? When opposing DC's look at game film of the Jets, they do not ignore what they see in the limitations of Jet players in guessing what the Jets will do when they play them. They do not instead try and guess what Brian Schottenheimer will think up all on his own. They know he will have to deal with those same limitations in callng plays. What he wants to do and what he can think of cannot be separated from the players he is working with, and what they can and cannot do. Now in terms of going forward, you are of course correct in saying it would be no easy task to change gears at this point particularly regarding Sanchez. But... that doesn't mean that changing the OC will mean Sanchez for that reason alone will suddenly play better. Since I've already said I don't want to keep Schotty as long as they don't replace him with someone worse, then what is the difference between my position and yours? Maybe it's just a question of emphasis. I think pretty much all that you said in the quoted post could be true, or is true, and I would say something different. I would say go ahead and change out the OC, but don't expect miracles when you do. I would say the problem is much deeper and widespread than the OC's playcalling. I would say problems with the O are the fault of pretty much everyone associated with it, from Tanny and Rex right down to VD. Schotty is in that range of people, as is Callahan, Cavanaugh, might as well add Moore to the group, but certainly Mark Sanchez does not get a free pass, either. So maybe it's just a question of emphasis, but I certainly hope you don't expect everything to be different when Schotty leaves. I would love to think that righting the ship would be that simple. But I don't think it will be.
Big, you make some very good points, the one issue I have is that even with a healthy Oline, the offense is mediocre, they have always been mediocre, this offense does not and has not been one to sustain drives on a consistent basis and I know some of it is execution, dropped balls, bad throws by MS, but I can't blame the players for the past 6 years of mediocrity. That means that MT has done a terrible job of drafting and signing FA, however we all agree that MT has done a a good job(B) at picking up players. I will also be the first to say give BS a break if we had no talent at the WR, TE, RB spots and if all 5 of the oline players were 1 or 2 year guys. But that is not the case I truly think after 6 years of BS that it is his scheme that is inadequate.
Some progress.... The slow starts have me fuming. Normally my voice is gone by the 1st Qtr. It's a bit on both more-so Schotty. Time and time again has come where someone says his plays are predictable.
Six years of mediocrity? You do realize this team is coming off two successive AFC Champ Games, and would have gone to the playoffs in 08 if Favre had not gotten hurt? Tough crowd. I know the O pretty much bites this year. But my point is it's not all on Schotty, not by a long stretch. Sure, let's have change for change's sake. Why not? Just don't bet the rent on an overnight improvement. Of course that doesn't mean the Jets are incapable of improving. There are several things that cuold or might happen. But I just don't see play calling as what's holding them back.
