I get what your saying. I'm saying I had the same type of benefits to watching it as you and thought they made the right call even though it hurt the jets.
Oh Johnny, that stung. I thought you of all people would appreciate my attempt at Jets related humor....and to end this now overly discussed thread.
And it might have worked if you'd even come close to getting the quote right..... as it is, you sounded like my Dad trying to be down with the kids.
Well I'm probably old enough to be your Dad, and I hate it when people I'm jousting with make a good point. This one made me laugh out loud....touche, BTW- what is the correct quote?
Thanks for the video link. I'm watching it over and over and still can't say that you can clearly say he had possession of the ball. Being able to see it again, I'd lean more towards possession, but I don't think it's obvious control. After rewatching it, I honestly wouldn't necessarily rule out incomplete pass. I think there's a lot of avenues this could have gone, but overturning a call with this evidence isn't one of them. As I've said before, I think the call on the field is what should be chosen here regardless of what the call was. If it was called a fumble, it stays a fumble. If it's called down by contact, it stays as that. Having two hands on the ball is never an indication of firm control. You could be holding it with the back of each hand, that's not firm control. Hell, I don't even think there is a real legitimate definition for control.
Alright, yeah, this has been beaten to death. Junc and I both remain unconvinced. I'm 100% in agreement with Junc on this. One hand, two hands, three hands...whatever the case may be, it doesn't mean control. There are plenty of catches that get overturned because of "bobbles" before they're out of bounds that are closer to possession than that. The biggest thing to me was that what is shown there is not proof that he had possession. Close, yes. But not clear cut proof. Besides, if you have control of the ball and get hit like that and the ball comes FLYING out, you clearly didn't have good control of the ball. Obviously you can't use that as a basis, but I think it does show just how tentative his possession was. We've beaten a dead horse.
Seems pretty clear to me that he is down. The ball doesn't even start moving until he takes the 2nd hand off the ball which was well after Pace touched him. Sure he is bringing it up before Pace touches him but he has full control at that point.
I'll certainly agree that the rules around possession was really unclear and it's easy to get contradictory rulings depending on the ref. I think Branch had possession when Pace 1st touched him but I am a Patriots fan. I'm sure if it had been ruled a fumble or incomplete I would be bitching and moaning as much as anyone.
pls:stop the thumb-sucking..you're either there with the 'big-boys' or you're not.... The refs? I always 'smirk' and in the case of (some) Jet TGG fans, I cringe when Jet fans actually blame the refs as a more-than-one-game reason for an "L"). Plain and simple, that's part of the SOJ 'pussy franchise' mindset. Gents, we're the Jets--the Rex Ryan Jets. Weren't we just 'yesterday' chirping "we're taking over!" shit during our recent 2 year conquests esp. during the playoff runs? Who's jumping ship? Who? Looking at this bed-wetting, pillow-biter excuse of a thread, what Packer-Saint-Patriot-et-al fan reading this "whaaa...the refs screwed us!" thread think: SOJ labia? Simple: we have wood to cut. That's Rex et al to address. In the meantime, Don't blame the refs, the schedules, the whatever. Turn 2-3 into 6-3 and let's go from there. 'sob'...the refs' .... pleeeeze.
So the catch - was it incomplete or not? That wasn't challenged and doesn't appear to be too contentious. And of course for it to be a fumble it has to be complete. If it is incomplete not a big deal, Brady gets another shot at the end zone from inside the 10 and life moves on. So now if it's complete, then by definition Branch has possession while he is on the ground and starts getting up to attempt to get to the end zone. The stuff you are talking about - bobbles going out of bounds and so forth apply solely to the process of first getting possession while receiving a pass, which is pretty clearly defined in the rule book as maintaining control through the process of completing a football move, and by the rulings on the play of a completion Branch has achieved. That is not the same as losing possession which Branch has to do for it to be ruled a fumble. Now he gets up on one knee and looks like he wants the play to continue. I think the ball is moving in his hand to some extent at that point. Now Pace comes in makes contact with the knee down and the ball comes out. But if Branch has possession it's no fumble because his knee is down. So when Pace comes and makes contact the question is has Branch LOST the possession that gained when receiving the pass? Because that is what has to be the case if you are going to call it a fumble. And of course the NFL Rule book only gives very vague language on loss of possession - but it does say some movement does not equal loss of possession. Personally I think Branch has possession up until Pace knocks the ball out, which is clearly after he first touches Branch with his knee down.
Meh. Complaining about ref calls is like complaining about wind. Sometimes it's at your back, sometimes it ain't. I don't really think the refs botched anything terribly in this game.
Down by contact. The only thing that pisses me off about the fact that he was down by contact is the Jets game in the pouring rain against the Broncos in... 2008? Jerricho Cotchery covered up a botched reverse. If Branch was DBC, so was J-Co.
I've read a lot of whinning and complaining about officiating being biased against the Jets. BUT.................I really didn't come here to troll. I just checked in and was amused by the title of the thread and then couldn't help but reply. Actually, in a pool, I predicted the two biggest busts for the year (based on media hype) to be the Eagles and the Jets. I am obviously leading in that pool.:grin: I simply wasn't impressed by the Eagles attempts to buy a championship and I wasn't impressed by the Jets helter skelter bunch of over achievers last year and a cheerleader for a HC.
