My God.. the people who defend Shittenheimer are fucking clueless. If this was just a this season thing, or a this week thing, or a rough stretch thing.. then fine. I would agree that people are overreacting calling for his head. But this has been going on for FIVE YEARS now. Nobody has succeeded under his watch. As a coordinator he sucked. As a QB coach he sucked. He doesn't know how to play to his player's strengths. Players all perform better before or after they work with this clown. It's a pattern at this point. He is what he is. And that's an awful offensive coordinator who has gotten way too many chances at this point.
Obviously you can bounce the coordinator. And as I've said for weeks, I'm fine with firing Schottenheimer. My only point is that canning him now does nothing for this team, and will only expose just how bad it is talent-wise. A lot of Schotty bashers like to pretend that someone like Callahan or Moore would suddenly make this group an offensive force, when the reality is, they'd just continue to suck. We need turnover. But not just at the coordinator position. We need turnover of the on-field staff as well. The only two guys I truly believe are not expendable are Mangold and Ferguson. Everyone else is either too old or not talented enough. (Maybe Kerley, but it's too early to tell, and Holmes isn't going anywhere but should only be a #2.) Forget that it was Ryan's mandate. These same people who are bitching today were demanding we go back to ground and pound just last week! It didn't work because even though we got our general back, our starting running back is average. But 86 yards is seen as some great performance. It's just laughable. Focusing on the run against a team that can't stop the pass led to a shitty performance and that's the fault of the guy who was told to create that gameplan. Not the guy who told him to do it, nor the guys responsible for executing it. Just the guy who put the plays in the book. See, it's you who ignores things. Yes, the run and pass games failed all game. So what is the magical third option Schotty should call? Greene doesn't get yards, so what's Schotty supposed to do? The receivers don't get separation, so what's Schotty supposed to do? When receivers are open, and the brain-dead QB hits them in the hands and they drop it, what's Schotty supposed to do? Brian Schottenheimer cannot make the plays for them. Unlike you, who refuses to attribute any blame to anyone beyond Schottenheimer, us "SDF"s (as you like to refer to us) can admit that Schotty isn't doing a good job. The only thing that guys like myself and Big Blocker are saying is, whether they fire him or not, it's not going to get better. Not with the personnel we have on the field. Fire him. I don't care. I don't have to feed his kids. I'm sure he'll get a job elsewhere. We'll get someone new in here to call plays that Sanchez will fuck up. I really hope this was just sarcasm. I really do. Welcome to the Schottenheimer's Defense Club. It doesn't actually exist, but I'm sure you'll be initiated as a member by the haters soon. :rofl: I miss you when you go quiet for a while. Spot on brother. :up:
Schotty has pictures on EVERYBODY. He's a smart guy and he figured out the internets early on. That let him get big portfolios on just about everybody kissing their cat wrong and now lots of people defend him because being outed would be worse.
Why does asking for Schotty's head mean those people are only blaming him, or scapegoating him? Are you going to fire Pettine because the defense was on the field ALL DAY against the Pats yesterday because the offense had 7 3 and outs, and couldn't sustain a drive? Did you know BJGE had 59 of his yards on the last drive against a gassed defense? Sure, Schottenheimer is only part of the problem, but HE'S A LARGE PART. Ryan has already taken over defensive play calling, already played that card. He has nothing left to do there. He is not going to fire his hand picked Coordinator, and honestly, I am not sure how you can kill the D for yesterday. I just don't see why wanting Schottenheimer fired or relieved of play calling duties (which has happen about 50 times in NFL history in season) means that people are happy with the rest of the team, or that they are blaming the OC for everything. Rex is too blame here too.. maybe even more so because Schottenheimer should have been canned after last season. He wasn't because they knew a lockout was coming and wanted to keep continuity, and now it's costing them. His game plans are awful, his in game adjustments are worse, as they are non existent. Most importantly? He does not put his players in the best situations to be successful. And this is now being said around the league, by people who know a hell of a lot more about what they are talking about than you or I do. He has LOST the team. They had NO confidence in that game plan yesterday. None. OF COURSE they are going to say they had a great week of practice, and that they loved the game plan. When Sanchez said that I actually laughed, as I thought perhaps he had his notecards back for prepared comments. It was right out of the script. The performance on the field, the shrugging shoulders after play calls, the shaking of heads leaving the huddle on play calls, all indicate that he has lost the team. Time to go. It's not ALL his fault. Doesn't mean a lot of it isn't his fault, or that fans are ONLY blaming him.
I get the distinct impression that most of the hate toward Shotty is based on the thought that the O talent is superior and should be performing at a top 5NFL level?
I think it has to do with watching his offenses underperform and do the same crap repeatedly over the course of 5+ seasons now, with multiple different QB's and key players. He's never had good success, and he's had the talent. People can say Sanchez is bad or whatever.. what was the excuse for when he had Brett Favre? Or Chad Pennington who left Shittenheimer and went and finished 2nd in MVP voting the very next season while learning a new offense in a matter of weeks.
How come we only read about SCHOTTY? By the way, did I say 136 yards to a scrub rb sucks? If SCHOTTY's game plans are awful, they were approved by REX. What do you have to say about that? The whole team is in disarray and yet all we hear is SCHOTTY complaints. Its a team game and I am sure you are aware of that. The players dropped 6 or more passes. Sanchez was inaccurate as usual. The receivers did not get separation. The defense did not defend against the TEs well at all. Again, its ateam game. Win as a team and lose as a team. Its also a marathon and not a sprint! It is not time to panic! We have lost 3 games in a row. Two we figured to lose. The game against Chokeland was a sin. The D came out flat ala Pittsburgh last year. Yet its always one coaches fault. I say the cancer has spread and now its time for the surgeon to do his job. Rex has to turn this ship wreck around and if he can't or won't do it then we have another problem on our hands.
Uh oh. Another member of the Schotty Defense Unit! Look, I don't know how anyone feels about anyone. However, I see people denying that the supposed meetings happened. I see the one guy with the big mouth get benched. I see Woody talk about how the offense used to feel like 200 yards on the ground was expected. I don't see people actually pointing the finger at Schotty. Whether they are or aren't is speculative and nothing more. I don't disagree. So why is Schottenheimer to blame for losing? If they did what they were supposed to do on offense, and got reasonable yardage on the ground, why is Schotty still a fool? The defense failed. But no one wants to accept that because, like other things, it points a finger at their favorite fatass gasbag. Sooner or later people are going to have to realize that maybe Rex is like Herm Edwards. Really fun for a sound clip but maybe not the guy for the job. Which is what I've been saying. Yes. That is exactly what I think. There is a specific reason Callahan was fired by the Raiders. It was because Rich Gannon demanded it and publicly stated that Callahan's gameplans and playcalling sucked. This is why I can't understand why people are so enamored with him. Again, I don't have a problem letting him go. I'm not attached to Brian Schottenheimer. I get no benefit from him being here. I just don't honestly believe any coordinator could make this unit work. If I honestly believed Callahan or Moore could take over, or Cavanaugh or Pennington, or Vinny Testeverde, or Wayne Chrebet, or Ghandi, and be successful, I'd call for Schotty's head right this minute. Hell, fire him now anyway. I just want everyone to be ready to admit that the players we have suck when a new coordinator can't get them to perform either.
Not all shottys fault but it has def become clear over time that he is the central problem. My biggest fault with him is he doesnt seem to trust his own team, he doesnt trust sanchez doesnt trust his offensive line. He wants all quick slant routes and safe plays. He doesnt seem to think we are capable of getting 10 yards when we need it so he calls 5 yards routes for what seems like a field position thing. He never seems to mix it up short deep run screens i cant remember last game where i didnt know what was coming half the time. If i know then the defense surely does.
I have to admit I've defended Shotty in the past but what he did yesterday was indefensible. the first 3 times we had the ball we went 3 and out ... we had a 3rd and 1, 3rd and 2, 3rd and 2 and he calls passes on all three ... punt, punt, punt ... are you effin' kidding me?? I thought the idea was to run the ball and keep Brady off the field! I've seen enough.
I see. So this is all on the players? Do you really think the team doesn't have talent on the offensive side of the ball? Santonio Holmes, Plaxico Burress, Dustin Keller, Shonn Green, LDT, even Joe McKnight, and they don't have playmakers? Two perennial pro bowlers on the O line? Come on. But Schotty's doing a great job. No, Schotty can't make plays on the field. He couldn't possibly if he was calling the plays for himself. 3rd and 7? Lets run all 4 receivers on 6 yard curls. ALL FOUR. PHIL SIMMS SAID IT. Want to see an offensive coordinator? Watch a NE game. Watch a Bills game this year. Do they have as much talent as the Jets do on the offensive side of the ball? I don't think so. Yet they are doing a pretty good job of putting up points. This is not about 5 games. This is about 5 years. Let me ask you. Why is it ALWAYS about the players with Schotty? When his offense doesn't work, and it often doesn't, why is it ALWAYS the players who don't execute? Is it EVER about him? EVER about the fact that he game plans for what he sees on film, and if he gets something different during the game he makes NO changes until he has no choice because "his game plan is sound. If it's not working, it's on the players and execution." Isn't that a little stubborn? When does he get any blame, after 5 years? It's all the players. Dropped balls and what not. Well, here's a question. Watch a patriots game, and tell me how many times they run the same play more than twice in a game; same formation, same play. Yesterday, Schottenheimer ran it 5 times. 5 Times, with a variance only on one of them. And it's not like it was working like gang busters. That's creative. How may times do we see receivers in the same area in one of his brilliant route schemes? 4? 5 times a game? Is this ALL THE PLAYERS running the wrong route? Tough to believe when we have seen it for 5 years. He needs to go... but we agree on one thing... I now too I hold Ryan responsible for not doing something about this. So, there ya go. This is all Ryan's fault that Schotty blows. And one more thing... i have NO PROBLEM blaming the defense for not getting off the field when they need to, for not coming up big in big spots, hell, I was in a huge debate right here two weeks ago about how the offense and sanchez bailed them out five times last year and the D was the reason they lost the AFC champ game last year. I have no problem with that. It has NOTHING to do with Schottenheimer. Nothing. Not sure why you have to choose between who is sh*tting the bed. They both have. This is about Schotty. Start another thread about firing Pettine.
I keep seeing this suggestion made that Callahan take over. As we have discussed I know of no logical reason to think he would do a better job. I know there are those (not so much here - people here don't know much about his history for the most part) who, knowing his history, try to spin it. Yes, he was OC under Gruden, and they had success, and Gannon who had his problems with the Chiefs did much better in Oakland. And the Raiders did go to the SB the first year Callahan was HC. But it was all Gruden's team, and while some people find Gruden annoying, he was a mastermind of offense. Then Callahan lost the SB, and it was not all because of Robbins, and even the notion that Gruden knew all the plays and calls is also on Callahan. Were that really true, who should have known better? Callahan. It's really what happened afterwards, completely losing control of the team, getting fired, finding himself out of hte league, and then that's not all, he couldn't run a college program, either, and was fired from that job as well. Having said all that, I would just as soon see him replace Schotty just to shut up those who want Callahan. Be careful what you ask for. On your second bolded quote, that seems only fair to me. Perhaps while we are waiting for the inevitable, we can hear from some of the Schotty Haters what wondrous changes they predict as soon as he is shitcanned.
@krisjenkins77 Kris Jenkins 3 step Shotty about time.... That's all you got. speculative? Again, my point wasn't that Schottenheimer was to blame. It was simply that if they players on both sides of the ball are really in near mutiny over him, then he's got to go. If it's all media driven bs, then who cares. Rex is much better than Herm Edwards ever was. How much did the pass defense improve from Mangini to Rex? Rex brought over a player or two, but its mostly scheme. Rex is a great D-Coordinator and he's been good as a head coach so far. I'm not going to fault him for not wanting to put the game in Sanchez's hands. I'm not. I really don't think it would make much of a difference in the middle of the season between the two. You seem to think that shotty is keeping the players from sucking more (you said he's worth 2-3 wins). If we're going to make a change after the season, it would make sense to bring someone else in. In fact, I'm not thrilled with the fact that Callahan didn't have the o-line ready to play without Mangold in Baltimore.
Fear not. Nothing is going to change this year. Rex will not fire him in season... it's not his MO with assts. You will have Schotty all year, and the players will continue to be the reason the offense swims in mediocrity... not the fact that the game plans suck, the in game adjustments are non-existent, and none of the talent he has (and he has some) will be put in positions to be successful, or utilized. Hey, how many seam and skinny post routes did Dustin Keller run yesterday, with no Jerrod Mayo, and the pats with 30th ranked pass defense an awful secondary, when LB's were playing zone in the middle of the field and Keller can run by all of them? Can you say microcosm?
1. True, there were some plays that players left on the field. I do not deny that. That aside, if you fail on 1st down for half the game, where does the blame go to? Players fucking it up? Who gets them prepared to play? On Plax dropsies, I do believe Tannenbaum is to blame on that one, since Edwards in year 3 would not drop such stuff. (He dropped very few passes last year.) 2. I don't know if you saw this or not, but when Greene lined up to run on 1st downs, defense basically teed off from the get-go then swarmed the line. Didn't I tell you in one of the game thread posts? Even I called the plays, and I was correct in those calls. Are you saying that doesn't fall on the OC alone, but that falls on everybody else too? 3. This is what you keep ignoring: many people (including me) have cried outloud about: a. clustering the downfield threats in one side of the field b. all receiving threats running 3-5 yard patterns when Jets O needs 6+ yards. Just who conjures up this sort of magic master plan? Are you saying THAT also goes to everybody else too? Are you fucking nuts? 4. Last, but not the least, if you plan to feature your run game as the main method of attack, the passing game must compliment that philosophy by going down deep, forcing the defense to stretch vertically. As I have pointed out, Schottenheimer's flavor of the offense is ground-and-pound attack with WCO, (which he royally sucks at, by the way.) Are you saying this kind of philosophical error goes to everybody else too? Are you fucking nuts? I do blame Schottenheimer, but I don't blame him for everything that goes wrong. I blame him for things that I believe he is responsible for (play designs and play calls mostly.)
3 for 11 on first downs, a QB that's can't convert, lack of downfield passing until it's too late. This is MARTY BALL. He's a Schottenheimer...what did Marty ever win...nothing. Schottenheimer has lost the offense can him now. Can Tom coach the offense or does he have to remain in a 'consultant' role.
This team is built around our D, winning the field position battle on special teams and moving the chains TOP on O. That's the philosophy and it's not much different than most really good teams that win a SB without the best QB or O in football. The team we played yesterday has a great O. Their D is horrible, stinks, bottom of the league, putrid. You cannot lose the TOP battle and leave your D to hang out to dry because you can't muster a first down. You must get drives of 6,8,9 10 plays even if you don't score TD's. The reason is simple, field position and rest for the D. We were 3 and outed all day yesterday. That is unforgivable. Now it may be that our personal sucks, and it probably is vastly over rated, however there is a responsible party that falls just below the HC and GM on the O side of the ball. Whatever you may think of our personal at this point if the OC can't get results against a horrible D in a game where the goal is to keep the other teams all world QB off the field, than either the personal has to be replaced or the guy in charge of getting them to execute has to go. That's the way the real world is suppossed to work. No golden parchutes you either get results or you get out.
you know what, you guys are right, if only the receivers could get some separation from their defender they would be covered by their teammates defender because the receivers are all like 5 yards apart... why blame the players? isnt this the nfl? are you telling me the entire team has no business in the nfl or the jets really just dont have anybody as good as any other team? listen to what you are saying, considering on that offense we have proven veteran receivers, along with a hof rb (in all fairness he is pretty old at this point), 2 of the best offensive lineman in the game, and a super-bowl mvp. fuck give me the job and ill run the exact play you would expect out of every one of these people and they will fucking do it. what happened to the fade that appeared for a game or two then disappeared into the night as i guess plax learned more offensive plays, or maybe schotty just forgot that he has a 6'5 receiver who lives for that route. actually. the defenders are right, plax just forgot how to run it good even though he scored 2 tds on it so far this year...
