Anyone who thinks that Rex Ryan's defense will fall apart this year is ignoring history and being an idiot. I will readily admit that. But let's be fair here. The jets pass rush sucked for most to the season, with the exception of that game. To act like it's a given that your pass-rush will terrorize us next time we meet is equally retarded... not BECAUSE you will be missing Ellis (who was the key difference maker in that game), but definitely more so considering that fact.
a healthy pace and ropati, along with the additions of wilkerson and ellis should help the pass rush a whole lot more then losing shaun ellis will hurt it. hell i think losing ihedigbo will hurt the pass rush more then losing ellis will
I'm not arguing that you guys will not improve in this area in a general sense. Johnny English made the point that it is we (pats fans) who should be worried because our O-line got dominated by your pass rush last time we met, and have not done enough to improve. During that game your pass rush played unusually good, our o-line played unusually bad, and Ellis was seemingly the "x-factor". My point was just that considering these things, there is only cause for moderate concern at most.
No the key difference maker in that game was the secondary. The vast majority of those sacks were coverage sacks. Brady was out of sorts that game and it wasn't because he was terrorized by the pass rush. The Jets back half of the defense was pretty much lights out that game. Secondly, I never said the Jets pass rush is going to terrorize anyone, quite the contrary. I think the Jets pass rush whether it is great or not so great isn't going to make as much of a difference. Rex has found a way to create havoc either way. That isn't even taking into account that any pass rush coming from Ellis is/was gravy. The D-line are for the most part space eaters in Rex's system. The Jets lost 17 1/2 sacks from last year. The majority coming from losing Taylor, Ellis and Coleman. Sorry but I am not too worried about losing a part time OLB, 4th CB or Ellis. They all are replaceable and none was a monster for any significant period last season. That is not to say I wouldn't want Ellis back. Edit: Ok the terrorize comment was directed to Jonny...........
i dont think the jets played unusually well or that the pats played unusually bad. i think the jets used a game plan that exploited a patriots weakness, one not many teams have tried to employ out of fear that their coverage wouldnt hold up, or that they wouldnt be able to stop the run from nickel. basically, the jets went with a 4 man line, smacked the pats in the face, and overpowered them up front, and took advantage of a soft oline. the jets arent afraid to leave coverage exposed, and did a great job stopping the run wtih 5 dbs on the field. i think the pats were smart to bring back mankins, and would be even smarter to invest a ton in oline help, as it is a major flaw that is only going to be more apperant as brady ages, or once his days are done, as he makes up for a ton of it with quick decisions. but any time he is forced to hold it, his line is easily overpowered. look back at the last 5 or 6 meetings, and the jets beat up the pats oline. even in the pats big win, the line had some issues, but it didnt matter because they got up big early.
Miamipuck and jerseyjay have made some of the keys points, but as far as I can see the Jets' defensive scheme that dominated the Pats' offence in January is still eminently usable because I don't see that the Pats have done anything to prevent it. As far as I can tell you still don't have the downfield threat that will prevent the DBs from stepping up and prevent the defence from clogging Brady's favourite passing lanes, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more teams attempting to employ similar schemes. The Eagles' defence is every bit as capable of doing the same thing, as are probably one or two more others. Of course playing the Patriots is probably the toughest game on the schedule so no-one (including me) is taking anything for granted, but I don't remember ever having seen Brady so unsure of himself as he was in that game; he was dancing round in the pocket looking for his outs and seeing nothing, and he didn't know where the next rusher was coming from. You think that didn't put an extra bounce in the step of every pass rusher and DC in the league? Onus is on the Patriots now. Just because you know what's coming doesn't mean you can stop it, and I really hope that Belichick has written that game off as a one-off the way you lot have. Sadly, I suspect he hasn't.
I don't really feel like looking up stats on my phone right now, but I believe our offensive line was one of the best ranked units in the league... and that is after playing against rush happy teams like pitt, Baltimore, green bay, etc. I realize that your secondary helps you guys, but I just don't think that it is such a weakness that we will get beat twice in the same exact way. Also, when you say investing heavily, I assume drafting highly regarded LT and RG in the same draft qualifies. We don't expect these players to be top caliber starters immediately, but I don't know why the same can't be said for your rookie DL players.
He was playing hurt when he returned, but last season was his worst season. Its a faneca situation again. So the line should plateau at RT, and then get better a la Slauson.
Open ended questions are great! Better team? As we see during training camp? Better team? As we see during pre-season? Better team? As we see during regular season? Better team? To win the Division? Better team? As we see during the playoffs? So many variables over the last two years to consider. DEFENSIVELY: After losing to Indianapolis, in RRY1, we upgraded our secondary and tried to upgrade our pass rush. Considering that Rex's defense is based on defensivebacks first, and then he upgrades the front 7, that move was predictable. Enter Kyle Wilson, Antonio Cromartie, Brodney Pool, and Jason Taylor. Our adjustment was good enough to beat Indianapolis in the playoffs in RRY2. After losing to Pittsburgh, in RRY2, we began the front 7 youth movement. And it was time. No Kris Jenkins for 2 years? Had to fix that. Losing Shaun Ellis wasn't our best case scenario, and our rookie would have played opposite him, but we may sign depth or veteran leadership when pre-season is finished. Same thing with outside linebackers. Depth is needed. Talent will be drafted. Our regular season matchups on our schedule favor our current base defense and nickel packages, and that would be another post topic, but what about the playoffs? I would be pleasantly surprised to see our Jets win the division. Possible but not probable. In the playoffs, we would probably be the 5th seed. We would probably be matched up against the AFC West division winner. Our next opponents will be Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, or New England. We are capable of beating all 3 of those teams. The key to winning those games is our offense. [segway]. Should we win the division, we are going to the Superbowl. OFFENSIVELY: Braylon Edwards was instrumental in RRY1. A late season addition, he was critical for our offensive success. What really ended up hurting us was Leon Washington's injury against Oakland. Leon's abrupt departure cost us the AFC Championship game. If healthy, we would have been able to run the ball against the Colts more effectively than we did. We were predictable on offense, in the second half, and need to add depth at runningback in RRY2. Our offensive line also needed youth and we addressed that in the draft. We drafted McKnight [LW clone], and caught a break by adding Santonio Holmes and LT. Holmes could now help stretch opposing defenses even more for the running game, and gave us more formation and personnel package options. LT was a vet, and the receiving back we needed, to replace Thomas Jones and Leon Washington. Talent was not the issue in RRY2. Offensive playcalling was the issue. BS [no pun intended] struggled with formations, scoring, and sustaining drives. After 2 masterful playoff games against the Colts and Patriots, BS folded under pressure in the first half of the AFC Championship. BS responded with a strong second half, but the Jets came up short again. Enter RRY3...Tom Moore. Rex Ryan Year 3: QB: Adding Guru Tom Moore was for Sanchez AND Schotty. Our offense should be better operated. PERIOD. Receiving Corp: Plaxico Burress is the big body receiver that Braylon was, and is a better alternative than Randy Moss. Burress is an upgrade over Braylon in every measurable category EXCEPT he hasn't played the last 2 years and needs to develop chemistry. Will Plax be ready by the playoffs? That is the only real concern. If he is, then the Jets will be Superbowl bound. If Kerley can emerge as a consistent receiver, the Jet Offense can be steady until Plax is ready. Derrick Mason is the pro receiver Cotchery is and more. Health and chemistry, not age will be the issue. Holmes has no suspension to serve, and is an upgrade with a year on the team. Dustin Keller will continue to improve, hopefully as a blocker, but the Jets need depth at this position for run blocking. Runningbacks: 4 are too many. The Jets may trade one, or keep all. With the AFC Championship game against the Colts still fresh, 4 backs on the roster is a reality. A committee backfield should be expected, and we can only hope for some formations that play to each back's strength. The Offensive line is still solid, luckily the Jets don't run off tackle right quite often. RT isn't as big of an issue as it appears, but there may be a veteran addition after pre-season. Secondary: Pool, Cromartie, and Wilson will be better. An upgraded pass rush next year, will make us even better. Leonhard is back, and brings leadership and experience, but durability is questionable. Linebackers: Bart Scott, Pace, and Thomas all have at least 2 years left. Our draft next year will be the LB corp of the future. An improved secondary will benefit them the most. Not pass rushers by nature, their run stopping ability will make most teams pass heavy and predictable. Except the Patriots and Colts. It would be highly likely that we play only one of these teams in the playoffs. Defensive line: No veteran leadership, lots of talent. Will they be ready by the playoffs? Veteran leadership is needed here and for depth. Better team? As we see during training camp? Yes. Better team? As we see during pre-season? Yes. Better team? As we see during regular season? No. Better team? To win the Division? No. Better team? As we see during the playoffs? Yes.
I hope "our lot" hasn't given you guys that impression. You guys got the better of us not too long ago, and as you said, you may very well be the toughest game on our schedule... especially considering he familiaruty that these teams have.
From what I have seen defensively we have played the Pats very differently each time we have played. The Jets like the Pats adjust. Both teams have a nice corp of talent all over the field. I believe the Jets have put more elite talent in place and like the Pats have filled in around it. The difference has been we have more elite talent and you kill us at the QB position. The reality is it stands to reason the Pats QB play isn't going to improve from the stellar level it's at. The Jets at least are in position to get a jump at that position in year 3. I think even a Pats fan can agree that all things being equal the Jets are likely to get more out of the QB position in terms of growth.
there is a difference between statistically being a good offensive line, and physically and actually being a good offensive line. yes the pats thrashed pittsburg. but most of that is because brady is so damned good, and is so great executing that offense that he was able to get rid of the ball and pick apart the steeler defense before the rush even got out of its stance. i dont think it is a suprise that the teams that have successfully put brady on the ground have been physical teasm rushing 4 and daring them to go deep while being super physical with their coverage underneath. the jets have found a way to make brady hold the ball for 2 to 3 seconds, as opposed to the 1 to 2 seconds he usually takes. and the pats line simply cant hold up.
I think that the perception that the jets have more elite talent across the board,while the pats just have the QB advantage is no longer true in the way it was last year. Last year we were starting a handful of rookies who proved themselves throughout the year: mccourty, spikes, gronk, hernandez. We were also starting Arlington/butler at CB. Last year comparison of talent included LT playing at a high level, and Edwards instead of plax. This year, I don't think there is a large disparity either way. You are right in the sense that we can't expect improve numbers from Brady, but to expect him to improve his playoff performances over the last two years isn't unreasonable at all... our regular season performance did not limit us at all last year.
i dont know, id give the jets a pretty sizeable advantage at OL, DB, HB, WR, and a slight advantage at LB. the pats do have a ginromous advantage at qb. but other then brady, there really isnt an elite talent on the pats. where as with the jets you have revis, holmes, harris, mangold, fergeson, who are all among the best in the league at their positions.
Aside from Brady, Wilfork and Mankins are certainly elite level players, having both started in the last 2 pro bowls.
I would give the jets advantage at CB, but Pats at safety. Plax is too much of a question right now to call WR anything besides even. I disagree with you about HB, I honestly think we have an advantage there. I also think that we have a significant advantage at TE. I will give you OL though and a slight LB advantage. DL I would call even, though I wouldn't be surprised to see either team pull ahead during the season. Also you seem to forget Wilfork, Mayo, Welker, Mankins are all among the best at their positions (and Brady of course). Gronk, Vollmer, McCourty are all poised to jump into those ranks in their second years starting.
