"The Hall's Selection Committee can elect a maximum of two senior candidates and five modern-era candidates for a class no smaller than four or larger than seven during next February's meeting." That quote is from an article on the HOF website. I thought it was possible to have as many as six modern players but it seems that the limit is really five. With one less spot, Hayes is bumped from my list. Faulk, Sanders, Roaf, C. Carter, and Sharpe really should be locks. It is a crime that Carter isn't in already.
It is a shame that Cris Carter is not in the Hall of Fame. Same with Shannon Sharpe. I don't know if either of them get in this time around though. Maybe Carter finally gets in.
Even though Carter retired before Rice I think they wanted Rice to go in by himself before they let Carter in. It shows a lot of respect for Rice but it is wrong and Carter deserves better.
Carter is not overrated. He had one of the greatest pair of hands in the history of the league, ran great routes, was amazing near the sidelines and endlines was a great scorer (scoring 9 or more TDs 8 times and is 4th all-time in TDs). About the only negative that I can think of (and I really don't even think of it as a negative) is that he wasn't a down the field threat.
For me the best players step up when it matters most, he disappeared far too often in big games to be as good as he is perceived to be. It's a similar debate, he loves players that put up huge fantasy #s, i love players that produce when it matters most. carter is alot like manning in that he was a great reg season player who played most of his games in domes in a pass happy era then struggled in the games that mattered most.
He'll defnitely get in and he deserves it but him and Tim Brown are clearly a notch or two below the true all time great WRs. They played in a pass happy era and their stats are a td inflated as are most WRs from the last 20 years.
He caught 6 or more passes in 6 of 14 post season games and caught at least 1 TD pass in 7 of 14 games. He was never a big yardage guy but had 80+ yds in 6 post season game. In only 3 of his 14 post season games did he “disappear” (1996 vs Dal, 1999 vs Dal, 2000 vs NYG). He did not disappear in big games. And he was always working with different QBs who were second tier QBs as well (a pre-Hackett Gannon, an aging Moon, a young Brad Johnson, an erratic Jeff George, Sean Salisbury, Daunte Culpepper and Randall Cunningham x2). You always bring up fantasy numbers but I never do. But if you want to talk stats – Carter has the 2nd most receptions in the 1990’s, 2nd most TDs in the 1990’s. In the post season he is 6th in receptions (49) and 3rd in TDs (7) in the 90’s despite playing in fewer games than everyone in front of him in both categories. In comparison to his contemporaries he comes out at the top. And that still doesn’t factor in his elite skill level (hands, route running and sideline ability). And Carter was always at the top during the pass happy era. Among the receivers of the 90’s only Rice is considered clearly better and the only receiver that would be considered at Carter’s level would be Michael Irvin. Tim Brown and Andre Reed are clearly behind Carter. So at the very least Carter is the 3rd best receiver in the 1990’s and did so by playing with many different QBs. Carter was an elite receiver who should be in the HOF already.
In the 7 games he caught TD passes in the average margin of victory was 16 points. In tight games he never caught but in the most meaningful moments in closer games he failed to deliver. In 14 career postseason games he came up big against the Giants in 1997 and that's it. he had just two career 100 yd games, one in a blowout loss to SL in 1999(a game that was 49-17 and through garbage time pts they made it 49-37) and the other in a 34-16 blowout of the Saints in 2000. You do bring up fantasy #s w/o calling them fantasy #s. You place a priority on reg season #s. In his 14 year career: recs: led league once, top 5 6 times. Good yards: never top 5, best finish was 7th. Not good TDs: led league 3 times, top 5 3 times. Good So he wasn't always at the top, he definitely belongs but he deserved to wait. he is on par w/ Tim Brown. The teams he played for always disappointed in January and he was a major reason why.
In the 1994 Chicago playoff game his touchdown brought Vikings back to within 5 points after a failed 2-pt conversion try. He caught 8 passes that day. The 1996 Cowboys game his TD got the Vikings on the board, but he did not have a good game but that was mostly because his QB Brad Johnson had a terrible game. The defense gave up 23 first half points The 1997 49ers game Carter’s first TD tied the game. Randall Cunningham completed less than 50% of his passes and an INT that was returned for a TD. Carter caught a 2nd TD that brought them back to within 10 but the defense gave up 14 straight points to put the game out of reach. The 1999 Rams game Carter’s TD got the Vikings back to within 4 points. And after the Vikings took a 17-14 lead their defense gave up 5 straight TDs. Jeff George did not play well until the end of the game. Carter’s TD’s in those games that were blowouts were meaningful TDs. To say he never delivered in meaningful moments or that he was a major reason why the Vikings disappointed in January is ridiculous. I never bring up fantasy numbers you do. You seem to be obsessed by them. Carter wasn’t a yardage guy. He was the possession receiver who had one of the best pair of hands in NFL History, who ran great routes and made spectacular catches near the sidelines and endlines. He played with many different QBs but was always the main focus point in their passing game until the arrival of Randy Moss. Of the receivers in the 90’s only Rice would be considered better than him w/ only Michael Irvin being comparable. Tim Brown is not on par w/ Cris Carter.
Point of reference - Cris Carter and Jerry Rice were the 1st team receivers on the All Decade team of the 1990's. Michael Irvin and Tim Brown were on the 2nd Team.
First of all, there are 31 extra touchdowns that say Cris Carter was better than Tim Brown Second of all, Tim Brown is no slouch. Football is the ultimate team sport. Even if the offense is the best in the league the team can still lose if the defense isn't up to the challenge. The Vikings didn't always have the best supporting cast for Carter, even on offense. Also, the Vikings had several different quarterbacks while Carter was with the team. Their running back retired in his prime as well. Aside from Jerry Rice and Don Hutson, Carter is probably the best receiver of all time (not counting players who are not yet eligible). You could make a case for TO or Moss over Carter but neither guy has lasted with one team as long as Carter contributed to the Vikings. Junc likes to argue but how is this guy not a first ballot hall of famer?
That TD brought them to w/in 5 in the 2nd qtr, they would lose by 17. he caught 8 passes for 61 yds, Wes Welker laughs at that per rec avg. The 1996 Cowboy TD got Minny on the board and it brought them all the way back to a 30-7 deficit. of course it was Brad Johnson's fault, it's always the fault of another player in these arguments. The first TD against SF tied it at 7 in the 1st qtr- what clutc play! the 2nd brought them w/in 10 and they would lose by 16 but we know it wasn't his fault. The 1999 Rams game his TD made it 14-10 in the 2nd qtr, by the end of the 3rd qtr SL was leading 35-17 and they would extend that to 49-17. Again, you do bring up fantasy #s w/o mentioning them. You talk about the great reg season #s but ignore how these guys played in the biggest moments. It's great he caught TD passes early in games to make games close in the 1st or 2nd qtr but when those games were getting out of control why wasn't he making plays? Irvin was better than Carter despite the difference in #s and Tim Brown didn't really get his career going until after carter so his #s were. Carter basically had a 2 year head start on him, Carter got it going in '91 and brown '93. those 2 were similarly overrated WRs, both very good but not as good as most people think.
30 extra TDs and I think Carter is better but I think they are in the same neighborhood as far as overrated WRs. The Vikings always had excellent talent on offense. Robert Smith retired after the 2000 season, Carter's last season w/ Minny was 2001. They had several different QBs all of whom were good NFL QBs: Cunningham in Philly and Minny, George, Culpepper, Brad Johnson. No there were not any Brady's or Manning's but he had good QBs his entire career. Make a case? TO and Moss blow Carter out of the water
You claim that Carter is overrated despite the overwhelming statistical evidence to the contrary. Which HOF eligible WRs do you rank above Cris Carter (Moss, TO, etc. don't count as they are not eligible yet)? ========================================= Speaking of overrated WRs, you said in one of your other posts that Michael Irvin was better than Cris Carter. How do you figure that? ============================================== The fact that Carter was the only constant on a revolving door of QBs and the Viking's offense was consistently good speaks volumes about what Carter brought to his team. His QBs were good but comparing them to Manning or Brady is a joke. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Moss the Raider, Moss the Viking part 2, and Moss the Titan couldn't hold Carter's jock. I happen to think that TO could give Rice a run for his money but that would be a tough sell.
It's not just stats, he had great reg season #s. he disappeared in big games, Michael Irvin stepped up. Carter had the better career #s wise but if you had the choice of the two in January there's no doubt I take Irvin. Give me the list of eligible WRs. Many of the 90s & 00s guys are overrated b/c of the pass happy era they played in which inflated their #s. The revolving door at QB for Minny was revolving QUALITY. He wasn't playing w/ Brooks Bollinger, he was playing w/ quality guys. When did I compare his QBs w/ Manning? I said he never had a Manning or Brady but he had good QBs. Moss the raider and 2010 randy could hold the jock of Carter '87-'90 and 2002. Randy Moss is so much better than Cris Carter ever was it's not even debateable. He doesn't always try, if he did he'd be up there w/ Rice and Hutson but when he did try he was the best by far.
Eligible is any WR that has been out of the NFL for 5 or more years (including all hall of famers). Where do you rank Carter? The revolving door is important because the lack of chemistry can be overcome in the regular season but for a team to go far in the playoffs it really helps that the players have had a few seasons to gel. Changing QBs every couple years is not the path to the Superbowl. Two sides of the same coin: 1. Did Michael Irvin really step up or did Troy Aikman, the Cowboys OL, Emmit Smith, Jay Novachek and the Cowboys defense step up to make him look good? 2. Did Cris Carter struggle in the post season or was it his supporting cast that choked? Either way, Irvin had talent around him that Carter could only dream of. Clearly the hall of fame voters liked Irvin better but Carter had a more productive career. 2010 Randy is a chump. Either Mike Williams has had a better year than 2010 Randy. Don't compare this loser to a legend.
