I have only seen the guy play in a few games I was able to get on DVD or via NFL films footage but look at some of the games he had. The guy would throw for 400 yards and complete like 15 passes. They weren't dinking and dunking back then this was pure downfield passing. Today you see these guys throw for 400 yards they are usually completeing 30 passes. First qb to pass for 4000 yards and from like 70-73 his prime years he missed something ridiculous like 30 games. I think people don't give him enough credit.
Times change, one area gets easier for players and another gets harder. they may not take as many hits but the QBs in the old days didn't take hits from guys as big, strong and athletic as the guys these guys takes hits from. Manning and Brady are almost the size of some of the bigger defenders way back when. If they had the rules of the old days today there's no doubt we'd see deaths in every season w/ the size and speed of today's players. When did Namath or Unitas ever get pancaked by a guy Kris Jenkins' size?
Joe had THREE 400 yd passing games in his career. You were taking one incredible game(1972 at Baltimore 15-28, 496 yds, 6 Tds, 1 INT) and trying to make it the norm. His other 400 yd games he was 23-39 for 415 w/ 3 Tds and 1 INt in '67 against Miami and he was 25-46 for 403 yds w/ 1 TD and 2 INts at Oak in '72. Durability is part of the evaluation process, if a guy cannot stay healthy what good is he and how can he be great? Injuries robbed him of truly having a great career but those are the breaks.
I love how so many people chuck their opinions around like they are facts - it makes for entertaining reading
Just curious how many games did U see JWN play live & in person & please be truthful with your reply? :jets:
Yeah, it's both funny and annoying at the same time. It is funny when they write something silly. It is annoying when you point out how they are mistaken about something and then they never show up in the thread again.
Three, none live. Live doesn't mean shit footage is footage. He had a rocket arm, but wasn't accurate at all.
Whether Namath was great or not, he is the most iconic figure in NYJets history and most importantly he brought the Franchise a ring, something no one else has been able to do in Jets History, so on that basis alone, I could care less if he was over-rated, we have to always speak highly of him, otherwise you are putting down the franchise down as a whole.
Are you going to address my prior reply to you in this thread? If you are going to continue to say that Namath wasn't accurate, then you must say that the entire league was not accurate when he played. The era in which Namath played plays into this in a major way.
& from 3 games you saw snippets of none of which you saw him live & in person you can make a determination from that short span what a players career was that spanned 65 to 76 :lol:
I don't have to go through and break down every snap of his career to see what he was. Also, I reiterate that "live and in-person" is moot, it does nothing for your argument except raise the question "How many times did you see Favre or P. Manning live & in person?" or "What does live & in-person have anything to do with anything?".
What proves to me he isn't accurate is his throwing more INT's than TD's in 11 of his 13 seasons as a starting QB, and thus his putrid TD:INT ratio. Everyone's completion percentage appears to have been low but Tarkenton, Unitas, Jurgensen, Starr, and Len Dawson's numbers put Namath's to shame. Sorry, I haven't seen any of those guys live (which apparently skews my analysis), but the aforementioned QBs were all better than Broadway Joe. Joe was more of a leader and personality than he was a great QB. If not for injuries, maybe things would be different, but he's definitely overrated considering his name has stood the test of time and nobody knows (my generation) who the fuck Len Dawson is and he was, by comparison, much better.
Tarkenton and Dawson and Virgil Carter were all in short passing attack offenses. This is why their completion percentages were high for the era. Carter, in fact, was the first QB to play in what is now known as the West Coast Offense. In my initial response to you in this thread I was specifically responding to you knocking Namath for a "poultry 50% comp rate." Now that does not seem to matter to you. Accuracy is now about a QB's TD/INT ratio.
There was nothing wrong w/ his comp %, it's the TD to INT ratio and the W-L record I have a problem w/.
Well if in the snippets from the 3 games U saw U can make a judgement on his or any players career then you should be employed by ESPN as one of there so called "experts" :lol:
Accoring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NFL_season: One of the rules passed in 1978: "To open up the passing game, defenders are permitted to make contact with receivers only to a point of five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Previously, contact was allowed anywhere on the field. This is usually referred to as the "Mel Blount Rule" " This one rule change makes it impossible to compare qb pre-1978 to post-1978 qb. I'm not seeing how a pre-1978 qb can have completion % or td/int ratios comparable to modern day qb with such a big rule change. You haven't brought up the completion % yourself, that little part is for other posters in this thread. Prior to 1978 rule change, only one qb ever passed for 4000 yards in a season & I'm sure we all know who that qb is. == The W-L ratio for Joe Namath isn't great. I admit to not watching him play & only watching replays & reading up on him. From what I've read, he played long past his prime but I can't confirm that myself. Namath without SB III will have a harder time getting into the HOF. However, if Jets get by the Chiefs, then Namath has a very good shot @ back-to-back SB rings. We can't use the If/then to discredit a players credentials unless If/then can be used to boost a player's credentials also in counter-argument. === ???? sorry for posting again half of this post immediately afterwards, everyone. Tried to add a quick re-edit but there was a glitch in the matrix or something & it got combined into another post right afterwards.
I never compare stats of players from different eras, I compare them w/ guys from their era. It's not fair to compare Joe's comp % w/ guys from TD, it 's not fair to compare many stats but against his peers his TD to INT ratio was awful and he didn't win enough. I 100% believe it's b/c of the injuries but durability counts. W/o SB III Joe doesn't have a prayer of making the Hall. I believe he's in for what he meant off the field more than what he did on the field and his guarantee of SB III and becoming the first modern superstar football player helped him get in. he helped make the game much more popular, it's a shame he couldn't have staye dhealthy b/c if he did I believe he'd be up there w/ the all time greats.
Accoring to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NFL_season: One of the rules passed in 1978: "To open up the passing game, defenders are permitted to make contact with receivers only to a point of five yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Previously, contact was allowed anywhere on the field. This is usually referred to as the "Mel Blount Rule" " There's no way, qb before 1978 can have completion % or td/int ratios comparable to modern day qb with such a big rule change. You haven't brought up the completion % yourself, that little part is for other posters in this thread. == The W-L ratio for Joe Namath isn't great. I admit to not watching him play & only watching replays & reading up on him. From what I've read, he played long past his prime but I can't confirm that myself. === According to http://www.sportsattic2.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm In 1980: Rules changes placed greater restrictions on contact in the area of the head, neck, and face. Under the heading of "personal foul," players were prohibited from directly striking, swinging, or clubbing on the head, neck, or face. Starting in 1980, a penalty could be called for such contact whether or not the initial contact was made below the neck area. One of many rules passed since then to reduce the hits modern players (especially qb) have to take. As you stated in an earlier post, this can be offset by the power/speed/size increase in today's athletes. Namath didn't have someone Kris Jenkins size falling on top of him. However, Brady & Manning can run up to a 300 pound defensive lineman & just dive & can't be touched. No way earlier qb pull that off without taking a beating. === Whether Namath belongs in the HOF or not can only be determined by those who watched him play. Not the generation afterwards who only sees the stats & didn't see how the game was played @ that time.
Part of the issue with Namath's injuries is that back then, there was no such thing as arthroscopic surgeries. Every injury required opening up the legs resulting in railroad track scars and long recoveriry periods.Namath had a lot of high interception games because he often threw long, lower percentage passes. That was part of the allure of the AFL game back then. It was very exciting, and a reason why I became a Jets fan in the first place, not a Giants fan. Another big part of Namath's "greatness" was that he had a beautiful throwing motion, with great arm strength. Also, beacause of his immobility, he was a sitting duck in the pocket for almost his entire career. He had a ton of guts to play with his physical limitations. For what it's worth, Madden calls Namath the best QB he ever saw. Hard to say Namath was the most overated QB off of that statement. Plus, he was a very cool guy especially to teenagers like me during his playing career.
