Both guys got themselves hurt--O'Brien by holding the ball way too long and Chad by being a hero running through the secondary which is how he did the shoulder the first time, which led to the others. Chad missed a lot more time, but he also managed to play through it the one year and help us make a run, something O'Brien didn't do. He played but played badly, kind of like Favre did. If you rely on the big gun and the gun breaks you're fucked, Chad could play the game with his arm falling off and find a way to win or put you in position to win, that's why a lot of people have chosen him over O'Brien in this discussion.
He was sacked 62 times in 1985... 62 times... I know he held the ball too long, he did. But you can't tell me that was a good OL when he got sacked 62 times. That might be a record.
Freeman averaged 4.5 YPC, that doesn't happen w/ a bad OL. i realize you can have a good pass block line and a bad run block line and vice versa but we had an OL w/ Jim Sweeney, Joe Fields, Dan Alexander and Marvin Powell. That is not bad at all.
NYjunc's post count is only so high because he has to go back and forth with people all the time. He must have like 20 posts in this thread alone.
Stop posting misinformation. O'Brien did not have that line for the whole year in 1986. There were multiple injuries on the line, this was already discussed. Here is a link: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE5DF113FF930A3575BC0A961948260
Yeah, he answers every post, plus any historical thread he's all over it as I am. I don't see where it matters.
Point being the line wasn't crap as a lot of people make it out to be. Pat Ryan didn't get sacked nearly as much (relative to attempts) with the same line because he could move a little. Chad's line was good but I wouldn't say far superior.
Joe Fields played hurt during the playoffs offering both QBs better protection than O'Brien enjoyed during the last five games of the regular season. Besides, Ryan started two f*cking games and didn't even finish the second one. How is that a basis for comparison?
Sweeney started 16 games Fields 14 Alexander 16 Powell 14 That's most of the season. What does posting an article from training camp of 1986 tell us? I don't disagree but they were still quality players.
Ryan started the first 10 or 11 games of 1984 before O'Brien replaced him, a couple games in 1985, the two late in 1986, a couple in 1987, was the starter for a bit in 1988 and 1989. He was there for most of O'Brien's career with the Jets, playing of course behind the exact same O-line. EDIT: I see you're just talking about 1986 now, I'm talking about their careers in general. The 62 sack year was 1985 anyway.
Other teams use five guys on their OL, maybe theat was the Jet's problem. Aside from describing the 1986 injuries, it tells us that the Jets felt so good about their offensive line that they used the #22 overall draft pick on Mike Haight even though the entire sack exchange got hurt the same year and was aging as well.
Coming off of the 62 sack year they drafted Haight #1 who barely made the team, and an O-lineman named Doug Williams who didn't make the team. When does your #2 pick not make the team? That's one reason the talent declined so much throughout the late 80s, drafts like that when there was no free agency. Except for Toon in 1985 they got almost nobody from 1984-1987 in the draft who did anything, so I wouldn't read any wisdom into who they drafted from that era.
The starting 5 OL started 71 of a possible 80 games. In 2002 our starting OL started 68 out of 80 In 2003 our starting OL started Our FO was clueless back then so I'm not sure that the draft pick example helps your cause. The next year we drafted Roger Vick and let Tony paige go.
Who was even in charge? There was no GM, did Walton draft the players? We always credited Michaels for building the team earlier so I'm assuming Walton took that over? Gutman was team president or something, Jim Kensil might have been around. Maybe that was the problem, no clear cut decision maker? All I remember was the mess.
Joe Fields our starting center was out six games. According to you our line was so good because we had this guy, only it turns out we didn't have him for those games where O'Brien did badly. The rest of line was plagued by injuries, even when these guys were playing they were banged up. What do those stats have to do with Penny? Pennington only started at the end of 2002. It really doesn't matter whcih offensive linemen were hurt when he was picking splinters out of his ass on the bench. You mean to tell me than any NFL team would use their forst two draft picks on OL when their line is playing lights out?
The Jets drafting during those years was terrible. There was no direction & awful talent evaluation. Also, there's no free agency @ that time. It's not uncommon to draft a lineman with talent who you're expecting to start in a few seasons. Jets drafting offensive lineman doesn't mean they expected their picks to enter the line & immediately impact the team.
Joe Fields started 14 games and playe din 15 in 1985 http://www.nfl.com/players/joefields/profile?id=FIE766692 I don't think you realize just how bad our front office was back in those days. There's a reason we were one of the worst teams from the late 80s until parcells arrived.
Pennington came in Week 4 and started Week 5, so that is 3/4 of the regular season plus two playoff games. The Jets were 1-3 with Vinny starting, 8-4 with Chad.
