Plus, you even said he'd probably be the runaway Cy Young winner on a contender. So what you're saying is that it shouldn't matter how good a player is unless he's on a contender? What matters to me is each pitcher's performance. Not how many wins their team has. Felix has performed much better than CC or Price, and he's done so against even the best teams. Again, against the AL East, he's 5-1 with an ERA of 0.63. That includes 3-0 with a 0.35 ERA against the Yankees, and 2-0 with a 0 ERA in Yankee Stadium (17 IP, 6 H, 0 R, 6 BB, 22 K). If anything, this suggests that he's even better against the better teams.
Felix: 2.31 ERA, 66.8 VORP, 1.06 WHIP Price: 2.84 ERA, 49.9 VORP, 1.22 WHIP CC: 3.26 ERA, 47.9 VORP, 1.21 WHIP that's more than enough to overcome the disparity in record.
Ask some MLB pitchers who they think should win. Then ask them if they think any of those acronym statistics matter. FTR: What I'm saying is, if Felix pitches the way he did this year, on a contender and there's no guarantee that he would pitch like that if he were on the Yankees or Rays or Red Sox, then yes, he'd deserve it. Because they'd be meaningful games he won. There's zero pressure on him to win in Seattle. I doubt he'd pitch like that if he were in the East though. Facing the same team 5 or 6 times in the same year, season after season, is a bit more hard than a couple of times a year.
After last year, I have some faith the BBWAA will do the right thing, ignore the wins, and give the award to Felix. It shouldn't even be close (but it will).
Right, because how well you pitch doesn't matter, it's whether you pitch on a team with a good offense. I think you'd find that a good portion of MLB pitchers would tell you that "acronym statistics" do matter. Your argument pretty much does boil down to only wins matter, because Felix has been vastly better than any other AL starter. If they were close, and you wanted to give it to Price or CC for a better W/L record, I would have no complaints. They are not close. You said two different things. First you said on a contender he'd probably be a runaway Cy Young winner, which means that you're basing the award on how good his team is. Your second post qualifies it. If you think he'd probably be the runaway Cy Young winner on a contender, then not giving it to him because his team is bad is fairly ridiculous.
Okay, you'd give it to Felix. I'd give it to Price. Price will pitch in October and collect his Cy Young at some point, and Felix will go home. Either way, it's still inconsequential to me.
Shit like this is why people hate Yankee fans. Pitching in NY (or other big markets) is different, yes, and there are some pitchers who don't have the head for it. But it's not inherently harder, and pitching for NY in NY isn't so different than pitching against NY in NY that you'd expect it to trump talent. So, yeah, there might not be a guarantee that he'd pitch that well in NY, but let's put it this way: If you had to make a bet as to his performance in NY, where would you be putting your money? And don't give me this, "I don't bet," line of BS. It's hypothetical. It's asking you to make a judgment as though there were tangible consequences.
Why? Because I dared to throw my opinion out there? I don't give two shits who wins the Cy Young at this point. It won't be CC, so why would I care anymore? I like when my team's players win awards, but beyond that, I have no vested interest in the outcome. I still think Price deserves it most at this point, since he's the best pitcher on arguably the league's best team. Felix is the best pitcher on the league's worst team, so I don't think he deserves it. In the end, I don't give a rat's ass if he wins it or not. I simply don't think he should.
Wow, what a needlessly defensive response. :smile: FTR, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep if Price or Sabathia crosses fingers: ) wins the Cy. My mentioning of "anti-statistics, only-wins-matter, over-70" folks was in reference to people who would be up in arms or angry about the decision to give the award to Felix. The ONLY stat where he hasn't been dominant is wins...the stat that is directly related to terrible run support. I think wins should certainly be a consideration for the award, that goes without saying. I never said wins don't matter. However, Felix has been so superior in every meaningful pitching statistic that if the voters ignore the wins disparity and recognize his excellence, then I'm more than cool with that. Now, if he doesn't get the award, it will STRICTLY be because of his 12-12 record...and I'd be fine with that, because that's not a great record. Sucks for him. As far as your math nerd point: Just because someone doesn't accept numbers developed by math nerds as the be-all-end-all of the argument doesn't make that person "anti-statistics" or "over-70." ...in relation to my post, someone who chooses to ignore all meaningful stats, only looking at Wins as the number that matters, qualifies as the "anti-statistics, over-70" stereotype. Wins shouldn't be the "be-all-end-all" of the argument.
No, because you spent so much time arguing about it. An example of someone merely throwing their opinion out there would be more like this.
Okay, fair enough. Too sensitive on my part then. And with that, I'm bowing out of the conversation, since clearly my speaking about it tells some people (not saying you) that I care far more about it than I actually do. But before I go, Cano should win the MVP.
