I don't think this is the best example b/c Allen had been dominant at multiple positions and was widely considered the best Lineman in football. One of the main reasons he was moved inside was to combat NFC Dt's like Sapp,Randle, Brown,Simon and Gilbert..who were all guys who could plug the running game and collapse a pocket on a dominant basis.There were more great Dt's during this time than outside DE's.Before the switch Allen was a pro bowl LT. Part of what made him elite WAS his versatility. Mangold is solely an interior lineman. He isn't gonna move outside to blindside and keep Freeney sackless...I don't think this is a good example.
So what pass rusher in the AFC East is a bigger threat on the outside than Vince Wilfork is up the middle?
He was also a pro bowl guard and your refusal to answer a simple question undermines your arguement. Would you take Larry Allen at guard over the left tackles he has played with when he started at guard? Larry Allen only played one full season at LT. Otherwise he was a starting guard or rotated between guard and tackle. Also, he was a reserve in his first couple years and started due to injury. To call him a tackle and not a guard would be misleading as most of his snaps were at the guard position. See the link below: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AlleLa00.htm
Afc east? Really none. But in the AFC? Freeney,Mathis,Suggs,Mario Williams,Richard Seymour, Dumervil. Plenty of big time sack threats. Allen was moved to guard b/c of the number of quality Dt's in the conference..not just his division.
Even if we remove the one season Allen had at LT and agree that he was more valuable than the LT for Dallas during that timeframe...are you honestly suggesting that Mangold is as dominant as a player as Allen??? I mean I love Mangold but Allen is arguably the most dominant lineman of the 90's. Not to mention Mangold is not THAT superior to Brick as a player...and he certainly doesn't face the number of elite match-ups that Brick does in any given week.
Larry Allen didn't even start his first year or two. Mangold who is still young is already the best center in the NFL. I think he has the upside to be a Larry Allen type of player. I think Brick would be fairly easy to replace if you had a top ten pick in most draft years.
It is a bullcrap question and you know it. It is comparing an apple to a pick up truck...... good job though. Larry Allen is not germain to the conversation of " If any center is more valuable than an LT".
It is exactly the question at hand. If a center isn't as important as a left tackle, why would a guard be any different? I think a lot of people here are underestimating just how good Nick Mangold is at what he does. Also, if Brick was a top 5 LT in the NFL I might buy Brick over Mangold but I think that Brick is in the 6-10 range among LTs so I don't see the value.
Larry Allen was the Cowboys started at RT in his rookie season, then moved to RG the next 3 before finally moving to LG.
Didn't take you for someone that is full of crap, oh well. Larry Allen was only moved over because of Flozell Adams. His versatility allowed the Cowboys to shore up 2 positions on the OL. So really you are trying to bring one of the most versatile linemen ever, into the argument of Mangold is worth more than Brick. No thanks I am not playing along.
Versatile or not, Allen mostly played guard. He only started 19 games at left tackle in a 15 year career. So if left tackles are worth so much more than other linemen (such as centers) why is Larry Allen any exception to the rule? So he was versatile, he could play left tackle but the fact is that for the most part he was a guard. As for Mangold, it is too early in his career to put him in the hall of fame yet but after two consecutive pro bowls I would say that he is off to a good start. Fergeson on the other hand finally had a good year after an otherwise shaky start.
Kevin Mawae was always more valuable than the Jets LT, regardless of who that was, because he was a great power player in the middle of the offense who could also kick it outside and obliterate linebackers on the sweep. He was extremely solid in pass protection also and when he was on the field the Jets were much better than they'd have been with a great LT and an average center. This is just truth. Anybody who watched the Jets from 1998 to 2004 knows that this is true because they watched Jet offenses with QB's as varied as Vinny and Chad all prosper with the other pieces on the line changing around and Mawae the constant. The same thing is true of Nick Mangold now and he's just barely begun his career. Assuming the Jets can keep decent pieces around him for the next decade their line is always going to be somewhere between good and dominant. You just can't say the same thing about D'Brickashaw Ferguson. He's not as good at playing LT as Mangold is at C and you can't ignore that fact in the overall argument. Sure if D'Brick was a Pro Bowl LT who looked like he was going to be great for a decade it's maybe a different story, but he isn't. He's just a good LT who maybe varies up or down a little depending on the quality of the players he's matched up against. Mangold is a Pro Bowl player and he makes everybody he's matched up against look small.
im going with the minority on this one. Mangold> D'Brick Brick is avg(at best) at run blocking, great at pass blocking (then again aside from Seymour's prime there hasnt been ELITE pass rushing talent in the AFCE. thats my opinion) Mangold is a mauler and can handle elite run stuffers and not only makes the line calls and blitz pickups, but has been a team leader since day 1. Now we all know LT is the premium position plain and simple. im not gonna write a thesis to explain my reasoning, I just simply believe Mangold is the better football player and Brick would be easier to replace. thats my opinion. if Brick did what he did at RT (here come the attacks that RT is the road grader position and they dont face the premium pass rushers) nobody would be singing his praise like this which is true, but I just go back to this, I think you can find a D'Brick in the top 10-15 of any draft if you hit. Mangold, they dont make centers like him everyday. Theres a reason Mike Mayock dubbed him "the best center I've seen since Kevin Mawae" Jets fans have been spoiled with GREAT C play for over a decade so we forgot what its like to not have a top shelf C but with Fabini going from above avg to a turnstile we all know what happens when your LT slips. also Nick is only vocal cuz hes in the final yr of a back end of 1st rd rookie deal. Brick finally for once had a year to justify his salary. end of rant.
