NOt in this context. The guy was learning to play LB. Did you even read what you posted above...As a 3/4 De that's about all he's asked to do, with a little bit of gap control. Wreck the OL, so the four guys behind him can make plays. He needs one of two things. Speed..(he has) Stregnth (he has) You are fucking clueless.Period. Edit... I posted too soon. two other guys pointed out your lunacy above.
Obviously thinking it through didn't help you. I'm going to retype this verryy sloooowwwwllly... With Gholston Lined up next to Jenkins it now takes the effort of 4 men to consistently block two. Throw Ellis in there and now the OL is blocking 3 men. now here is the tricky part....(typing slower now) In order for him not to get 6 garbage sacks over 16 games (two against Buffalo no less), you have to be pretty sure that on an average of 25 snaps a game over a 16 game period, no tackle, is going to mistakenly move outside to catch Pace or Taylor, and basically leave a guard to get shoved aside by a much stronger man. oh...and football lunacy aside...Body builder is the wrong term. Powerlifter is more accurate the guy can bench nearly twice his weight. An impressive feat no matter what you weigh. p.s.. here's another little interesting side note.. They talk about Vlad being raw because he started playing football late. So is Gladys. Didn't play till he was a sophomore in H.S. so before turning Pro, he played in what...60 odd games..maybe? (34 at OSU)...
And no part of that involves him getting any sacks. Still nothing here that will get him a single sack. Actually, no they didn't. Trifco asked me if I thought he could collapse the line on pass rushing plays, which I said he could but he would not be useful on running plays because he cannot get separation from his blocker to make a tackle and I will add that he lacks the ability to make the reads to diagnose the play. You can see the question mark pop up over his head once the ball is snapped. Then Mick said that teams would constantly run on him leading to an occasional tackle, but: Hardly a rebuke of any criticism I have made of Gholston. Yes, that is how a 3-4 DLine works, although, typically, they do tend to leave one player there assigned to a linebacker, which used to be a position where Gholston played. During the first four games last season, he saw a lot of single match-ups with only tackles and got zero sacks. Now I am supposed to believe that him doing the same thing he did last season with the exact same skill set against more blockers is going to lead to an improvement in his sack totals? Where is the logic in that? Fucking hilarious. Did you used to write for Friends? [/QUOTE]In order for him not to get 6 garbage sacks over 16 games (two against Buffalo no less), you have to be pretty sure that on an average of 25 snaps a game over a 16 game period, no tackle, is going to mistakenly move outside to catch Pace or Taylor, and basically leave a guard to get shoved aside by a much stronger man.[/QUOTE] Actually, in order for him not to get any sacks whatsoever, he has to continue to be bad at getting separation from his blockers as he did last season. That's how a pass rusher gets sacks: he moves away from his blockers after he gets the dominant position on them. Gholston has never been able to do that as a pass rusher. Ever. Sweet a semantic argument! Because body builders never do any powerlifting, and certainly no offensive lineman Gholston has ever or will ever face would be involved in any of that. So you're comparing the assumed success of a rookie who has yet to play a single down in the NFL to an obvious draft bust who has not produced anywhere near the level he was supposed to in 2 seasons in the NFL? Gholston isn't the only player to start late. Curtis Martin didn't play football until his junior season of high school and he was effective in his rookie season. He had 3 years of coaching from one of the top programs in the NCAA and hasn't done a damn thing in the league. You can throw out numbers all you want but you have not come up with one logical point to back up your argument that he can actually get away from a blocker to rush the passer. You lose. Good day, sir.
I understand where you're coming from, but Gholston has had looks as a DE in the 3-4 before and there really wasn't much to get excited about. Fact of the matter is, as of right now, he'll be in a competition with DeVito, Pouha and 'Tooey at DE. If any of those guys are just as productive as Gholston at DE in the Pre-Season, then there really is no reason to keep Gholston on the roster. He's bound to make 6M+ this year alone. If we keep him on the roster and plays the entire year, and continues to stink it up, we will be forced with 2 options. Give him yet, another year, to try to get it, or cut him. However, cutting him would cost us 5M+ next year which would count against the cap. Essentially, he would end up costing us nearly 11M+ (6M this year and 5M next year) for 1 year's worth of production. So the FO better twice about spending that amount of money on a prayer. This is why I believe (IF he doesn't show much in Pre-Season) he'll be gone before the season starts. As of right now, Gholston is on the team, so I don't just wish for him to do well. I hope he blows the competition away in TC and Pre-Season so we have good reason to keep him. But I also don't blindly root for players simply because they're wearing Green & White. For example, I don't know why Drew Coleman is on the team. I want him gone and there's nothing wrong with that. I think everyone can agree that he's garbage, so I don't consider myself to be a terrible fan for wanting to get the best players in at every position that will produce on the field right away. That's just my .02 on the matter. But don't get it twisted. I don't wish for Gholston to do terrible. I just think, considering how the FO has been doing business with productive players, that Gholston will be watched very carefully because that's a lot of money to have invested on a very un-productive player.
Ok...Now basic math skills are eluding you as well. 2 guys to block gladys. 2 to block Jenkins, one guy to block Elis...AND a LB? you're making my point. In 400 snaps, a guy that can annihilate a guard solo is going to be left alone by accident 20-30 times. 4 of those turn into sacks. 2 more by luck. As to how he could be a pass rusher I did not make that argument. Once again your lack of basic english skills leaves you confused. If he could rush the passer he'd be a LB. I said based on physical acuity alone, in 16 games at DE, he'd get 6 sacks. that's not an argument that's a prediction. And I did explain exactly how he'd get his. Once a tackle move outside, he can toss a guard aside like a rag doll. The friggin buy benches a guard and a half. Negates the need for hand fighting when you can toss a guy aside. (think Jenkins)....
Cato has hit a lot of the good points on the head in this thread. Another thing I noticed about Gholston is, during the Rams game last year, the bull-rush move actually put him out of position to make any plays on RB's running the ball. He gets easily moved or sealed out of plays because he can't disengage his blockers. He's gonna get completely engulfed at the LOS. Hopefully I'm wrong and maybe this move make him somewhat serviceable, but Gholston can't be just serviceable. He needs to show more than that. If he doesn't, I would hate to tie up a roster spot on him. He wasn't even great in ST. I wouldn't know where else the CS can put him if he doesn't have an impressive PS.
If Gholston and the Jets don't work this out then he gets low playing time next season, or cut outright before it, and he's negotiating with other teams with no performance on the field and therefore likely no solid contract offers coming his way. As it is he gets his base salary from the Jets, which is still substantial, he gets to go on the field to prove himself with no future repercussions for the Jets, and he probably has this season to prove himself to the NFL. As I see it there's no way Gholston wasn't taking this kind of deal. His career is one and out without it, given he probably doesn't sign a 500k one year contract next year to go play somewhere else. He's got a chance to be an NFL player now and he collects his 4 million this year. It has to be a win for him.
Clearly reading comprehension isn't that big of an asset for you, or you would have realized that every article concerning this move says that Gholston is going to be Ellis' backup. The chances that they are both on the field at the same time are rather slim. There's also the fact that your 2-2-1 blocking assignments are rare in most plays. That would leave a free pass rusher coming in on every play. Doesn't really happen too often now, does it. . More arbitrary numbers? Where the fuck do you actually come up with these? Are you taking into account that he is going to the DLine as Ellis' direct backup and isn't a major part of the DeVito/Pouha/Pitoitua rotation that will be going on opposite Ellis? Or the fact that Even after Jenkin's injury, Rex rarely carried more than five DLine on gameday? Gholston's potential at his second position in three years doesn't guarantee him a spot on the game-day roster, esepcially not when he's going up against productive members like Pouha and Devito, or that he has to go up against Pitoitua, a player who spent the entire season at his position last year, while having to learn a whole new set of reads. You said he could get sacks, that's typically the job of a pass rusher, or a player who knows what he is doing on the field. Being strong and fast is not enough. If it was, there would be a shit-ton more pass rushers in the league than there are now. Everyone in the NFL is strong and fast. Two physical attributes do not cut it. Gholston only moves in one direction: straight down the field. That's one of the easiest adjustments for a OLine to make. If the guy wants to come straight down the field, you let him. Drop back a step and form the pocket around him. The OLine engages him from the side and easily drives him off because Gholston's stiff hips do not let him change direction with power. This type of blocking adjustment is pretty common in zone blocking schemes like the one the Jets use. What happens if the QB...oh, I don't know...steps up in the pocket? Or slides away? Being able to push the pocket is one job but he still needs to GET AWAY FROM HIS BLOCKERS in order for sacks to happen. Semantics again? It becomes an argument when you try to defend over the course of five posts. Once again you seem to assume that Gholston is the only one in this matchup who can lift weights. There is only one person on this team that I have actually seen throw an offensive lineman aside like a rag doll and that is Kris Jenkins. Kris Jenkins is far more talented than Gholston ever will be, and that move requires a degree of athleticism and mobility that Gholston does not posses. Being able to force something away from you in a straight line from your chest is not a direct indicator of your ability to move something across your body. A better indicator would be something like actually doing it before, something that Gholston has never done. He can push guys back, there is no question about that, but he cannot get away from them. Even if he pushed a guard past a QB, he still wouldn't be able to get to the QB because he doesn't have the ability to get away from the guard, the flexibility to turn quick enough, nor the balance to maintain his rush while the guard pushes him from behind and takes him down. Of course, all of this is moot because by the time Gholston figured out where he was and recognized what to do, the QB would have thrown the ball away because Gholston is fucking retarded. If this was still college and Gholston was playing at OSU, then this type of shit would work. However, this is the NFL and the competition is too great, OLineman(yes, even gaurds) are too talented and he has proven that the game is just too fast for him to comprehend.
Look, I'm not rooting for the guy to make a complete failure out of himself(although I would find it funny if he did, not going to lie) but I don't see him as being all that effective. Right now his assignment is spot duty for Ellis and he's a shit defender against the run. He has the strength to collapse the pocket, I've never agued against that, but he cannot disengage from his blockers and get to the next level. He'll probably help the linebackers and safeties by attracting attention away from them but I wouldn't be shocked if he only managed one or two sacks this season. As a rotational 3-4 DE, he's not being set up right now for a whole lot of statistical success.
I have a feeling he'll actually turn out to be a decent backup. Not nearly worth what he's making now, or half that, but he could be good for depth.
The thing about that is the fact that I think we'll have some much cheaper options who can deliver real results sooner and cost us less money later. With the Jets willingness to part with Faneca and Washington, two players who have performed well for the Jets in the past, I wouldn't put it below Tannenbaum to try and move some money around and cut Gholston now so we don't have to pay him later when it could hurt us.
I totally agree with everything you're saying. I've literally seen everything you're describing about Ghlolston on the field to a "T", so you get no argument from me. I just don't know what they can teach him this year that he didn't already get taught in his 2 years here on top of whatever it was that they taught him in college that will make the lightbulb or mean-streak finally go on.
See my response to Tommy Green. I'm not entirely convinced that Gholston will even be on this team come opening day. If I read that article correctly, cutting him now would do the same as cutting Faneca as far as getting his money off of the books. As I've said, Faneca and Leon were productive players and were let go because of, albeit different, financial reasons. Gholston has never been a productive player for the Jets so I don't see too much reason for them to commit about $11million to him over two years and hurt themselves in the event the salary cap returns based on his potential as Ellis' backup.
I hear you. I basically wrote the same thing as a response to Alio a lil' bit earlier. I also don't see the FO investing 11M on someone they "hope" works out after he's shown them nothing for 2 years already. IMO, he needs to have a GREAT pre-season for them to even consider keeping him on this team.
the jets should have really read this espn chat transcript pre draft from him. could have saved them 2 years and so should jet fans. he's clearly not dumb(as far as nfl players go, hes really well spoken) but he probably doesn't have the football IQ/instincts to play at LB, along with the agility. http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/19539
rex should play ghost during the 4th qtr of pre-season games where he will be rushing against future carpet salesmen.
we all like football. but does Gholston really warrant the finger activity required to type this much? I mustve missed something. either way this is sink or fuckin swim for him now.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this, though I agree with you on the above point. But I think if they were inclined to cut him they'd have done it ala Faneca/Leon. One other small point...After last night I went back to the tape again.He has no issue disengaging from a single blocker...I watched him do it several times last night. Mostly on Tackles and with zero effort (he basically gets a hand on the ribs and casts them aside like a two dollar ho..). ...but..that's the least of his problems right now.
