Let me start by saying that a week from now, at least one or two of these guys will be taken by 34 teams and people will jump on it really quick. That's fine, because this is entirely my opinion of where these players will best succeed. There are guys that can be serviceable in a 34, but would have been a lot better off in a 43, or even vice versa. Even a guy like Kris Jenkins, who was a Pro Bowl 43 DT, has seen his star rise a bit since he started dominating as a Nose. But anyway, I'll include the reasons why as I go through some of the key positions, and of course mention the players I see brought up a lot here. Note, I'm not listing EVERY player, just trying to give people ideas of what players fit where. NOSE TACKLE- Key words: Space eater, takes up blocks, wide bodied, strong at point of attack, powerful lower body, anchor, pushes the pocket: Ideal size: 6-2, 330 34 players Dan Williams, Tennessee Terrence Cody, Alabama Cam Thomas, North Carolina Linval Joseph, East Carolina (*down the line, w/ development) Torrell Troup, UCF Jeff Owens, Georgia Boo Robinson, Wake (though his weight issue scares me) NOT 34 players Everyone else. No, there might be a few guys, like Jay Ross from ECU or Aleric Mullins from UNC, but they're probably better suited as 34 ends. DEFENSIVE END- Keywords: everything mentioned above at Nose would be great, but add in a bit more athletic ability. Also, anything about good agility, not necessarily burst or acceleration, but the ability to move side to side and clog holes is key. If you see "explosive off the snap" or "great penetrator", you're probably looking at a player who'd be best as a 43 tackle. It's all about leverage. Ideal size: 6-3, 310 34 players Ndamokung Suh, Nebraska (in case anyone was wondering) Jared Odrick, Penn State (though he's literally equally suited for both) Linval Joseph, East Carolina (for a couple years, then he'll just outgrow it) Arthur Jones, Syracuse (lower body, very strong) Mike Neal, Purdue Corey Peters, Kentucky Nate Collins, Virginia Kade Weston, Georgia (just because he's too tall to play NT) Alex Carrington, Ark State (NEEDS to get bigger though, gave him the nod, but he's really lean for his size, could be better off as a 43 player) CJ Wilson, ECU (could add some weight, but good body for the position) Brandon Deaderick, Alabama NOT 34 players Gerald McCoy, Oklahoma (it'd be like putting a Ferrari under a tarp) Brian Price, UCLA (penetrator, "QB killa") LaMarr Houston, Texas (too lean, not a powerful tackle) Tyson Alualu, Cal (don't let college 34s fool you, he's a smallish 3-tech, he's a hard working D-Rob) Geno Atkins, Georgia (a quick riser, very strong, very quick) D'Anthony Smith, L-Tech (like Houston, just too lean, even though the measurables are right.) Corey Wootton, Northwestern (edge rusher, would be closer to a LB than a 34 End) Clifton Geathers, South Carolina (too tall, leverage would be a constant issue) Carlos Dunlap, Florida (didn't know if it needed to be mentioned. Just too talented to consider wasting what he can excel at and stick him at 34 end) *All would be 43 tackles except for Wootton, Dunlap and Geathers, who are 43 ends. OUTSIDE LINEBACKERS- keywords: experience with his hand up/down, depending on what positions he's starting out at (DE/OLB), good in pursuit, passrushing moves, decent coverage ability, or at least some experience there, burst to the ballcarrier/good angles, change of direction. Ideal size: 6-4, 260 34 players Sergio Kindle, Texas (ideal #1, the prototype) Brandon Graham, Michigan (ideal #2, the dominant rusher) Ricky Sapp, Clemson (ideal #3, the true linebacker) Thadeus Gibson, Ohio State Jason Worilds, Virginia Tech Koa Misi, Utah (a concession, but he's really limited as a passrusher) Lindsey Witten, UConn Jermaine Cunningham, Florida (equally good as a 43 end though) Antonio Coleman, Auburn George Selvie, USF Rahim Alem, LSU Kevin Basped, Nevada (really overlooked early entry, raw but super talented) NOT 34 players Derrick Morgan, GTech (probably could play it, but suited for a 43) Jason Pierre-Paul (with all the work he needs, asking him to pick up coverage skills would be too much) Jerry Hughes, TCU (undersized, but not built like a brick shit house like the Graham/Woodley) Everson Griffen, USC (supremely athletic, but with his bulk and strength I wouldn't mess with things too much) Austen Lane, Murray State (I think he's still got a lot of room to add weight, and will end up as a stacked 285lb end) Greg Hardy, Ole Miss (I don't trust him, even though he's a smart kid) Brandon Lang/Cameron Sheffield, Troy (neither has the speed/explosiveness to pull off the DeMarcus Ware) Willie Young, NC State (though, he could be a good situational rusher as a late round flyer) I have no idea category: Eric Norwood, South Carolina. I can't wait to see who drafts him, because I just don't know where to place him. With the way he plays the game I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Rex fall in love with him, though. Rex would find him a role. I'm leaving out ILBs because no one really cares about that this year. I will say though that I think Sean Weatherspoon can be a great ILB in a 34.
I agree with your list of OLBs, even though I wouldn't mind Griffen playing standing up. He does seem to be way more suited to play 43, but I love the way he gets to the QB.
Can't play the ball in the air or cover worth a shit but his motor and his strength would be perfect for Rex to work with. Even if he is out of position, Rex could still probably get at least some production out of him. Shit, even Suggs managed to pull in five INTs in his career, which is about 5 more than you would expect.
I'd quibble with some, but not many. But you also have to consider whether you're talking about a slanting 3-4, like ours, which is closer to a disguised 4-3 than, say, Mangini's 3-4, which is strictly a two-gapping, guard-shedding old school 3-4
I'd say Griffen could play in the 34 or at least Rex's 34. Like what was said before, if Rex could hide Suggs in pass coverage he can hide anybody. Rex could definitly turn him into a Suggs like player. However if he played in a 34 where he would be asked to play the pass often he would be nothing more than a nickel pass rusher.
Nice thread GH, but I've got a couple of disagreements. Your ideal sizes, first of all: 6'2" for a nose, 6'3" for an end? I'd say those are the bare minimum heights for players at those positions. Weights are accurate, though. As far as Tyson Alualu, he's roughly the same size as most of the prospects you listed as 3-4 ends and he's a week of heavy eating away from your ideal size (6'3", 295 lbs.) You can be a very effective 3-4 end at that size as long as you have a decent motor, and Alualu's got a great one.
Motor + scheme I think are the reasons Alualu could work for the Jets. As Vilmatic said, Rex's scheme does a lot of single-gaping and Alualu's experience in a 3-4 along with his ability to penetrate could make him a fearsome player for Rex. Rex's system is great for versatile lineman like Alualu. He would probably get better production in a 4-3 as a 3-tech but he would still be a killer for the Jets.
Completely disagree with what you said on the ideal heights. 34 linemen aren't supposed supposed to be tall, the 34 is all about leverage and maintaining position. The great majority of top Nose Tackles in the league are 6'1, Jamal Williams is like a giant at 6'3. Defensive Ends tend to be a little taller, but not by that much. Maybe I'd change it to 6'4, but that's it. Alualu is 295, fifteen pounds under what I listed as the ideal. Plus, you can be a good DT with a great motor, but he needs a lot more than that to excel as a 34 end. He can try all he wants, but if he doesn't have the ability hold up those linemen then he won't fit. Look at the Defensive Ends that Rex has chosen as his starters. Shaun Ellis, Marques Douglas, Dwan Edwards, and Haloti Ngata. Big, bulky, powerful ends. A versatile penetrator type might be nice to rotate in, but he's not going to be the man they look to in a big spot.
I really like this list, very informative with the comments. Linval Joseph really seems like someone that would really fit in this defense for this year, I'm really hoping we get him or Kindle in the first round and then with the second pick getting OL.
You're right about the nose tackles. The horizontal is more important than the vertical. But take a closer look at those DE's under Rex's employ: Shaun Ellis- 6'5" 285 lbs. Marques Douglas- 6'2" 290 lbs. Dwan Edwards- 6'3" 290 lbs. Yes, Haloti Ngata is a superfreak and I'm not even going to bother listing his measurements. But how does a 6'3" 295 lb. guy not fit on that list? Three out of the four ends you mentioned as "Rex's choices" are further under your ideal weight than Alualu.
Look at the men. Look at how they carry their weight, if Alualu's playing weight is 295 then he must be hiding a ton of it in his feet or something. You honestly believe that Edwards is five pounds less, even though he's built like two of Alualu and weighed in at his combine up at 313, before even getting to an NFL strength program? Shaun Ellis hasn't been officially measured in ten years, Douglas in eleven. Honestly, just look at Alualu, the way he's put together, then go to look at these guys. Try and find the differences. People try and just figure that 34 lineman are those guys that aren't quite big enough to be true 43 tackles, and it's just not true. I'm not telling you what everyone has to be, I'm telling you the IDEAL size. Just like the ideal size for a running back is probably 5-10, 225, guys bigger and smaller can still play.
I'm not even sure Ogho's getting drafted at this point, but he could probably play there. He's got super long arms and that helps his tie up blockers, and a strong body with a frame to get a lot bigger, plus he moves fairly well too, though his workouts were awful. My issue is that I don't think he's got the mindset to battle for 60 minutes like a 34 lineman needs to.
In my mind, any player picked in the 6th or 7th that I know more about than just their name will make me happy.
I disagree that Greg Hardy is not a 34 OLB. He has the smarts like you've acknowledge and he has the athleticism. The guy played a season with the MS basketball team and scored something like 3 or 4 TDs as a wide receiver. He looked very smooth doing the LB coverage drills at the combine despite the additional weight he's put on lately. There were reports that the Jets coaching staff met with him twice that week. I don't think they were meeting w/ him to play DE in our scheme.
My issue with Hardy is entirely based on his desire to play. It's going to take a lot of work to turn any 43 end into a 34 outside linebacker, and despite the fact that Hardy has all the tools to do it, I'd be nervous about putting that kind of burden on him. He had a lot of issues at Ole Miss with just getting the desire to play, he's too much like Gholston in the head to try for me to say he's a good candidate to move. You're right though that everything else would make him an ideal candidate. I'm not surprised Rex met with him either, because if they can convince themselves he does want to play football, he'll be a huge steal anywhere ouside the first round. He has that kind of ability.
