This is ultimately true. He hired the man. How can you say that he did nothing to hurt Leon? He came out critically and publicly against the offer the Jets made and Leon rejected it. Ultimately, yes, it's Leon's fault for hiring the guy. However, if you think in the end that a player is ultimately making the decision to sign or reject based on his own volition, you obviously don't know many NFL players. These guys rely heavily on the advice and prognostication of their agents. Most of them are clueless about what their worth is, and they get that number from their agent. Leon rejected his offer because his agent told him he was worth more. He was led astray, and Keels' actions since then have caused him some added trouble and made it more difficult to negotiate with him. I agree with this, too, and am eager to see us improve the defense. I don't think you'll find many who actually know the game who feel our defense was where it needed to be last season. We need to improve through the draft, and the Feely signing may allow us to pick up a defensive FA now as well. However, I do think we differ on our perspective on what 'weakens' the team, or how much a Leon signing would weaken it. I love LW, and I'd love to see us reach an agreement with him. I just don't see it happening because of Keels. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see him settling for a realistic offer this year. It's more likely we go into the season with Leon playing his way out of New York. If that happens, I don't think he gets an opportunity to showcase himself, but I think he leaves anyway. This team has never utilized him properly, was trying to figure out how to last season, and ended up becoming a power rushing team when he went down. With Greene and LT, the only way Leon sees significant carries this season is through injury. It's certainly a possibility, but not one that I'm hoping for. I'd have a tough time hoping for a scenario in which Leon gets enough carries to remain satisfied with NY, proves his worth to the team, and signs a long term deal, because that scenario inevitably involves an injury to one of our top 2 backs. So, that leaves us with a dangerous KR who isn't going to see many carries in an ideal situation per the direction the offensive gameplan is taking us. I don't know that his departure weakens the current state of the team as much as we'd like to think it would. Again, I don't think Leon's place is what it used to be. If he leaves, we may even draft a back better suited to the current gameplan. So, to sum up, I'd love to see Leon stick around, get carries simply because they want to keep him as a vital part of the team, fire his agent, sign a realistic deal, and retire a Jet. In a realistic situation, however? It's probably best if we get something for him now, provided the price is right. Personally, I'm guessing he sticks around a season and walking away for no return on our end.
I think there is something to that argument, although probably not exactly what he meant. Both players were lost at a key point in the season and both were replaced well by depth players. We lost probably 3-4 explosive plays a game with Leon, and probably 4-6 impact stops per game from Jenkins. It's comparable.
i dunno...I guess if i had a choice of losing a starting NT who eats opposing olines for breakfast (see: Houston Texans) and an explosive backup HB....I wouldn't mind losing the the latter....because S.Greene more than stepped up in his absence. And so did Devito & Pouha (stepping in for Jenks)....not saying they didn't do a solid job. They were great too. Rex applied the perfect bandaid in that situation. But Jenkins is more important to the this team...than Leon. just my 2 pennies, man.
I agree Leon helps our return game, but we actually had a higher return average on KOs in 2009 than 2008, and we had the same number of TDs.
Show me where I wrote that our D was great? I realize you are trying to get something over on me but it's nto easy to do. Our D was better after Jenkins went down as I proved in the earlier debate. That didn't mean we were great after he went down. The leon loss was as big. Our D got better later in the year w/o jenkins(that doesn't mean I think we are better off w/o him). In 2009 our KRs minus Leon averaged 24.6 per return, in 2008 Leon averaged 25.6 per return.
He referred to TEAM kickoff returns. I was playing Devil's Advocate. Obviously I think Leon is the better return man. However, if you really want to play that game, Brad Smith averaged 31.0 yards per return in 2009.
10 regular season returns does not a Pro Bowl return man make. In addition to the stats junc posted on the subject above, I'd like to add that the Jets had 61 KORs in 2008 versus 48 in 2009. In 2008, Leon accounted for 48 of those returns, single-handedly accruing 1261 return yards and putting us in solid field position for most of it. You can dicker with stats all you want, but I saw the loss of Leon in special teams, as they experimented with Clowney and Lowery and Brad Smith. Their average was pretty solid, but having stability at KOR through the season matters when you're talking about blocking schemes. Of course, I was exaggerating by calling 2009's KOR 'nonexistent', but Fridays are for embellishment to me.
Perhaps you should read what I said above about playing Devil's Advocate. You called our return GAME non-existent, not that Leon's absence hurt the return team. I was just pointing out that wasn't necessarily the case. Obviously, Leon is our best bet at returner, in no small part because lining Leon up with Brad Smith optimizes the talent there. Smith is one of the best ST lead blockers we've had.
I'm just saying Smith did a solid job in Leon's absence....to the point where losing Leon wouldn't hurt the team as much as i thought it would.
It doesn't matter what he was referring to, I just pointed out how the KOs were worse w/o him. He had the one great return, for his career(even w/ that great return) Smith averages 22.3 per return which is more than 3 yards less than leon's career average and leon has many more returns where one great return doesn't skew the average as much.
once again...i'll repeat myself. B.Smith did a solid job in Leon's absence....to the point where i wouldn't miss Leon if he were released/traded. I never once said B.Smith was historically a better KR than Leon.
Largely because while Smith is a decent to good returner, we don't have anyone close to him as a lead blocker on KOR. The combo of Washington and Smith back there is absolutely lethal. Leon is one of the best returners in the game, and Smith one of the best ST blockers. Still, it's a huge credit to Westhoff that our overall numbers didn't diminish on returns.
but again Pouha did a solid job replacing jenkins so why wouldn't you be ok w/ getting rid of jenkins? Smith had the one great return and didn't do anythign else. Long term he is a huge downgrade to leon returning kicks.
Seriously? You just lost me there. You won't miss him? He's been one of my favorite players ever since he came into the league. I guarantee Smith won't be our primary returner if we lose Leon. We'll bring someone else in to maximize talent, and he likely won't be as good as Leon. If Leon goes, we'll miss him on KOR at the very least.
FYP, junc. you're assuming Leon is going to be as effective as he was before he got hurt......the jury is still out on that. Pouha was a bandaid who did a solid job, yes......but getting rid of Jenkins in favor of Pouha is stupid. Why?....like i said, dominant elite NTs are rare.....KR aren't....
