You do hold the Samuel INT against Manning. You made a comment just a few weeks ago about it. You commented on Manning's 1st half performance. If Wayne continues on he makes that catch. He had no time. He pumped but pulled it down because the receiver was covered and got sacked immediately after. See! You BLAME Manning for the sack. The reason they were backed up had nothing to do with Manning. Scifres was pinning the Colts deep in their own territory all game long. The Colts were marching on their 3rd drive before Garcon "The Beast" dropped a pass that would have been a first down. Their next drive they tried to run out the clock then didn't get the ball back for over an hour. Manning didn't have a great 2nd half but there were other factors going on in that game.
I commented that he wouldn't have to come back if he didn't play so poorly in the 1st half but I have always said he was great that 2nd half. That was his finest moment as a pro and #2 was against us 2 weeks ago. We can argue would he have made the catch or not all day but the bottom lie is it was picked. the DB made a great play and the QB threw the INT that cost his team the game. That is all that matters. I don't blame him for the sack, I blame him for not getting the 1st down on that possession which turned out to cost his team the game. So he got pinned deep? after 1st down he had 2nd and 4 and room to work w/ but he couldn't get the job done. So you can blame the WRs for dropping a pass or 2 but not the QB for throwing bad passes- got it. It didn't seem to bother them when they hadn't touch the ball in an hour on their first drive of the 2nd half so why would it bother them later? He had the ball 30 mins in the game, he had enough time and possessions to put points up- he didn't do it.
You have said numerous times the Patriots defense choked the game away. Only now are you giving Manning credit because you are backtracking. You have blamed him for the sack. The Colts needed a first down on that drive to seal but they didn't get the job done. So he got pinned deep? You just blamed him for making the Punter kick from the end zone.
I have always given Manning credit for that great half. Have to find a way to get that 1st down and win the game. no excuses. He took a sack that forced his P to punt from the back of his EZ- he doesn't get any blame for that? What does he get blame for?
You've blamed the NE defense for choking. The only way on that third down is to force it and possibly have it picked off. Just a few minutes ago you said you don't blame him for the sack.
I have ALWAYS given credit to manning for playing great. The NE D did choke, when you blow a lead like that it is a choke but Manning was great that 2nd half and that's why they won. Throw it away, he has to know coming out of the huddle it's either a quick hitter or he has to get rid of it. I know that saves SD time but that's part of the risk of throwing on that down. Youn can't tale a sack under any circumstances. he did, it cost them. If I wrote that I was mistaken, he has to know to get rid of the football. He had time to pump fake. He had more than enough time. What does he get blamed for? which of the poor postseason performances does he actually take blame for?
Thankyou. And I didn't attack you, I asked you 2 simple questions. Manning has had great talent around him, but where do you cross the line that Manning possibly made them great talent? Who the hell knew about Austin Collie and Pierre Garcon? For a 4th and 6th round pick, I find it amusing you call them "beasts", at least you did for Garcon, nobody knew who they were coming into this season, and THEY made Manning better? Manning had the worst rushing attack, teams knew he was going to be throwing and he still put him great numbers. Pretty respectful when it's the defensive coordinator vs. Manning. I don't have an issue with your list, especially since Manning did infact choke this past SB, a chance to put him in the Top 5 of all-time and it knocked him down. Still the best QB I've seen. So what Young had to wait for playing time, what did he do when he got thrown out in Tampa? Peyton threw 20 TDs in his rookie season with a crap team. Manning is way better than Young, I don't see how a guy with 7 hot seasons is better than Manning.
I didn't say they made manning, I said watching garcon the guy is a beast. Sometimes they don't get it right w/ the draft which is how a Brady can last utnil the 6th rd. Obviously manning helped make Garcon and Collie have good years. manning's rushing attack is the worst b/c he doesn't utilize it. he has more than capable backs, did you watch Addai in the SB?
Addai cannot be relied on, he's always hurt and avoids contact. He didn't even average 4 yards a carry this year when teams are barely in their base defense when up against Manning. Donald Brown was barely a factor this season. Hard to utilize a rush attack when 2 1st round picks can be a threat and your passing game is so on point.
You can't compare the two. Elway shouldn't be anywhere near that conversation. He should be somewhere in the lobby with Fran Tarkenton. Manning is in the conversation because he succeeds every year no matter who's around him. Every running back they plug in does well(read- Kenton Keith) and ditto on offensive lineman. He is an unbelievable leader with the stats to back it up. He succeeds no matter what the talent. He makes everyone better, and that's clear. I hate the guy, can't stand something about him, but I can't keep him out of that top three of all time conversation, as he excels at everything. Elway on the other hand, was the perfect mix of Troy Aikman and Brett Favre, a gambler with gaudy physical tools, good looks, and a high draft status that was overrated as a result of his approach to the game and physical talents. People continue to make excuses for him to this day. No one remembers that before TD got there, he was a guy that Reeves tried to replace with freaking Tommy Maddox. Elway is the most overrated QB in NFL history, IMO. Some of the seasons in which he made the Pro Bowl are as mediocre to poor as it gets. -X-
Who said better ? are you an ESL student ? I said...Manning is not even in the top 10 all time, let alone GOAT. Right now, with ONE ring, he is on the same level as Steve Young.Very talented, Very Effective in the regular season, (When complimented with a cast)...But faced with Elite competition, and having a great cast..cant bring home the bacon. No disputing that. If... Leon Washington, Kris Jenkins, Bart Scott, Donald Strickland, Thomas Jones, and Shonn Greene (stayed) were healthy....is this faggot even going to the Super Bowl? Not even remotely a chance. He's a great stats guy..but when the game is on the line, for all the marbles...He does not bring it home.
I don't want to call you dumb, but a clear reading of your proposal says far more about Mudd and Moore, than Manning. Or Has Denvers success at RB been bc of the QB, and not Shanadouche?
Let's just end the idiocy now. All you Peytonwhores answer two questions... Unitas,Staubach,Bradshaw,Montana,Elway,Aikman,Brady.... If Manning is GOAT, why is he better than ALL of them ? And.. Why are a bunch of ostensible Jets fans blowing this guy and getting irked for being disputed????? (He's very good, maybe great but not in the GOAT discussion yet...and may never be...)
Succeeds? Odd...I thought he only had one ring and was a .500 Playoff qb? Maybe your definition of success differs from Unitas,Staubach,Bradshaw,Montana,Aikman,Elway,Brady ..etc...Please..define success for us? Completes alot of passes ??? Chad Pennington does that, is he a SB ring away from the GOAT discussion?
Don't have an answer for that, but their running game has been down since Tarik Glenn retired. They played more than half their games against top half run defenses, so that might also have something to do with it. It might just be that Manning now has a greater wealth of targets to throw to, and he prefers that. I agree with Junc on this one. -X-
junc, How in the hell can you rank Ben Roethlisberger ahead of Peyton Manning? You ranked Dan Marino towards the top of your of list, and he didn't win a championship. I don't understand how you made those rankings.
I haven't read a single post in this thread outside of page 1.... Too much tripe to go through and it's pretty simple what this SB does to Manning's legacy: nothing. He threw for 300+ yards 1 TD and 1 INT. They didn't lose because of him, Indy's D was putrid in the 4th quarter and NO made plays on special teams. Manning is still Manning, and he is more likely than any other QB to be back in the Super Bowl next year.
Got it. So is post season record the only criteria for which to judge a quarterback? Since Manning is 9-9, and Donovan McNabb is 9-6, does that mean if I put McNabb on the Colts, they're clearly a better team? What about Rex Grossman, who has a similar career post-season winning percentage. If I put him in there, are the Colts going to to do just as well every season? Also, please direct me to the portion of the text in which I make reference to Unitas, Staubach, Bradshaw, Montana, or Brady. And while you're doing that, show me how many of those guys had sustained success, throughout their careers, minus their Hall of Fame Head coach, then get back to me. -X-
I don't want to read through all of that... I just know that when his career is over, Manning will hold most of the career passing records. I want to know how the hell you can seriously say Ben Roethlisberger is a better quarterback than Peyton Manning? Look at Big Ben's stats - he's only thrown for 20 TDs or more in two seasons...and he's thrown INT amounts in the teens in almost every season as pro, in a supposedly conservative offense. Manning's thrown for 26 of more TDs a season, every season as a pro. Big Ben has god awful pocket presence in a lot of games, and he holds on to the ball way too long. Manning owns him in every aspect of the game - if you put Manning on a team with that dominant of a defense, they'd never lose. Pittsburgh's first Super Bowl win with Roethlisberger had almost nothing to do with him - they won because of a strong running game, one of the best defenses ever, and a trick play. Big Ben led a hell of a drive in last year's Super Bowl to win, but he's still not even close to Manning...not even fucking close. It sounds to me like you guys just don't like the guy...Peyton Manning is the greatest passer of all-time, and his career isn't even done yet. I'm not talking about championships here, I'm talking about throwing the football better than anyone else ever has.
