I'm sorry, but I just don't get the Vasquez deal. Not that Melky is untradable, but I don't think we got fair value for him. Vasquez had a good year in the National League. Back in the American League, in the pressure-cooker known as Yankee Stadium--he'll crack again just like last time. I cringed every time he took the mound. I also want to know what Cashman is thinking bringing back Yankee retreads like Vasquez and Johnson. Nick Johnson or Damon and/or Godzilla as DH? I would have stuck with what we had. Granderson was a decent acquisition, but I'm not doing cartwheels over any of Cashman's moves.
they got younger, more athletic, better defensively, and improved their pitching so far this off-season. And Vazquez didn't "crack" last time, he was battling arm injuries in the 2nd half of the season with the Yankees. The Yankees got excellent value, and in no way got anything less than "fair value for him"
I think Scherzer and Edwin Jackson were the prizes. Young top starting pitchers. Granderson would be third.
I think Granderson is a very solid player. I mean 30 HR while playing @CoMerica? He needs to work on the OBP but you know he'll produce in this lineup in this stadium. He'll alteast offset losing Damon's bat while being better in the field.
No way I would give Lackey 5 years. His numbers have been declining the last 3, the last thing I want to do is spend 16.5 million on a 37 year old. The end of that contract is going to be ugly. Vazquez makes $11.5 million and Cabrera was the definition of league average at best. That $5 million difference can be better spent elsewhere.
The one thing I will say in regard to Don, the calling him a troll shit needs to stop. Disagreeing and even arguing with him is one thing, but calling him a troll when he isn't trolling is ridiculous. He holds the same sort of opinions many Yankees fans hold. You don't have to agree with him, but at least argue like an adult. The fact is, all the stats in the world don't make anyone's opinion any more valid than anyone else's. At least not until "proven" to be correct. And even then, someone still has a right to have their own opinion. I don't agree with Don a lot. Sometimes I think his opinions are completely out of left field. But in the end, he's just discussing the Yankees. So he isn't sign-and-traded somewhere else at the deadline. That's my big fear. Just like Mauer either getting a new contract from Minny or traded to a new contract. Yeah, Vasquez was good. I had forgotten he was part of the Johnson trade. Ugh. I don't know if he'll have more wins than Lackey, but I'd guess his stats will be better than Lackey's. Personally, I think Lackey is the most overrated FA pitcher on the market in a long time. It's just such a shallow pool this year so he looks better than he is. I definitely take this trade over trying to sign Lackey. Let Boston have him. People need to look at Vasquez's stats. He has double the innings in the NL, but almost the same average numbers. He's got double the innings in the NL as the AL (1660, 825 respectively.) His ERA is only half a point lower in the NL from the AL (4.02, 4.52 respectively.) His WHIP, H/9, everything is eerily similar across leagues. He's flat out consistent. And he's started at least 32 games every year of his career except 1. Scott Boras and Drew Rosenhaus are the human equivalent of Boston and Philadelphia. ----------------- As for the trade, this is a wait-and-see trade. Left field is now a gaping hole. Melky would have filled Damon's spot, and exchange some offense for some defense. Now we have neither at the position. I guess Gardner gives you more speed, but Melky's speed, with Damon's arm, and Charlie Brown's bat isn't exactly comforting. We've already traded AJax, so his callup isn't an option. So that's the key to this trade. Getting a left fielder that can replace whatever production Melky would have given us. At this point, I'd either trade for Crawford, as I mentioned earlier, or re-sign Damon to a short deal and hope we get the chance to get Crawford in FA.
I don't understand how Melky is gone and all of a sudden there's a huge hole in LF. Is he that much better than Gardner? He's a fan favorite with his energy and late game heroics, but he's a very replaceable player.
There is a definite drop off in offensive capability, and a huge drop off in arm strength. Gardner does not replace Melky except on speed. Plus Melky had a visible effect on the energy in the dugout. Not to mention Cano is going to be sad about the abrupt end of their bromance. He's definitely replaceable. Just not with anyone currently on the MLB roster. I wonder if they'll consider bringing Nady back? I really don't think Holliday is coming here.
But I think at this point, they are probably waiting out Holliday and will re-sign Damon if if falls through.
Didn't get fair value for him? On what planet? The Yankees getting Vazquez for Melky Cabrera is an absolute heist. Get a clue.
I really can't stand when someone says something like Melky for Vasquez. It was Melky and two guys with talent/potential for Vasquez and a guy with talent sort of comparable to the lesser of our two traded prospects. Melky for Vasquez straight-up is laughable. Had that been the deal I'd have still been laughing my ass off.
I disagree. He does far more than just "replace" Melky in speed. Gardner's overall defense benefits greatly from this additional speed. His range is much better, and while his routes could use some improvement, we saw improvement there last year, and his speed allows him to make up for mistakes that others can't afford to make. UZR - while imperfect - shows this. Melky's UZR/150 was -2.0 (He'd save negative two runs over 150 games.) Gardner's rating was 15.4! Just for some context, you'd be hard-pressed to find a CF with a better UZR. Offensively, Melky's OBP the last three years was .323. In Garnder's first "full" season last year, his OBP was .345. Gardner's OBP has been consistently higher at all levels of the minors, too. There is also surprisingly little difference in their SLG. Bill James and Fans project very similar OPS for both players, which means Gardner would be slightly more productive, given that his OPS is OBP heavy. I'm not saying he's going to be awesome. What I am saying is that he's going to be the #9 hitter on a very good club and replacing a player who, despite whatever potential he has/had, is very very far from irreplaceable. Gardner is more than capable of delivering (and surpassing) the production that Melky provided over the past few seasons. In fact, I'd be surprised if he didn't surpass it. Easily. Hmm. Your thing against Gardner strikes me as similar for your thing against Mussina. You saw Gardner make a bad play/throw or two, and then started noticing all the bad plays he made. Because - while I understand not thinking the guy's an All-Star or something - I don't understand how he compares unfavorably to Melky Friggin Cabrera.
In related news, Alio likes Ginger. Cappy like MaryAnne. Alio watches The Munsters. Cappy hates that show and prefers The Addams Family.
Actually, Cappy doesn't watch TV except for sports and 30 Rock (and the occasional Adult Swim show if I have the time). Although a more apt analogy for your point would be, "Alio is a flat earther, while Cappy believes the world is round." :smile:
Maybe I don't like Gardner because he throws like Johnny Damon's daughter? I don't give a shit what his UZR, OBP, OPP, TGG, RIP, ASAP or whatever are. Melky was a capable outfielder with a great arm, and the ability to hit for power. Melky > Gardner. F speed.
Melky has a better arm, Gardner has more range. Melky hits for better power (although he's still below league average), and Gardner gets on base more (although it's still not a great OBP). If I could choose one or the other, I would pick Melky. But I think the downgrade is minimal enough where it was well worth getting Vazquez, who is right now the best #4 pitcher in baseball. I'd like to upgrade the position, but I don't think starting the season with a Gardner/Hoffmann platoon until someone better becomes available is that bad. It's not much worse then a Chad Curtis/Ricky Ledee combo and the rest of the offense is better then that one.
