I would hope that Auburn destroyed Ingram's chances...unfortunately as was stated above it's now gonna be a popularity contest and there is no way a West Coast guy can win the award if that's the case. The only chance he has is if McCoy and Ingram split the South and Gerhart will get all the votes on the West. The issue is most East Coast writers have never seen Gerhart excapt maybe last night. Was that enough fro him to win it?
Mark Ingram is done, especially if he gets shut down by the Gators. Bama's backup running back Trent Richardson proved that any Crimson Tide back can be successful behind that offensive line. In my opinion, it's between Colt McCoy and Tim Tebow. I'm praying that Nebraska's defense owns McCoy. He's been playing against shit defenses all season long. Toby Gerhart should definitely be finalist. At this point, the top three should be McCoy, Tebow, and Gerhart. Mark Ingram should be left off the list.
Spiller is absolutely the player I'd want if I were drafting a back, especially for the Jets, given Leon's uncertainty. I'm afraid Toby's injury history will rear its ugly head at the next level, or he'll just finally be unable to carry defenders in the same way. I hope I'm wrong, but Spiller is absolutely the better pro prospect.
I totally respect what Gerhart has accomplished....he's a force It's difficult for a RB to win the thing, especially a RB in the Pac-Ten (westcoast). The Pac 10 just doesn't get the respect., some of it is earned. The Pac 10 defenses aren't exactly the best in the league. I said earlier, I'm rooting for Spiller, he won't win it ..IMO, McCoy is the frontrunner.
Again, though, the defensive statistic is pure speculation and supposition. The Pac 10 has more run defenses in the Top 30 (4), than the ACC (2). Spiller's exciting, but he didn't even finish the season in the Top 50 in rushing yards. I hear him compared to Reggie Bush, but Bush finished in the Top 3 when he won. There is simply NO logical argument why Gerhart shouldn't win, and yet like you said, he won't. I agree that he won't unless McCoy and Tebow both fall apart in their respective championship games. You'd think Heisman voters would be required to actually be knowledgeable about the players they vote on, and yet they seem to have their heads up their asses more often than not.
There was a good article today on ESPN.com. Basically said Gerhart made it a 2 man race, but McCoy has the bigger name so he'll win.
They should both lose to Kellen Moore 38 TD 3 INT. McCoy 27 TD 9 INT Clausen has better numbers 28 TD 4 INT and almost 400 more yards. Gerhart is average but he's up there for # of attempts. Williams of VT has simular numbers with 43 less carries. The Heisman is crap when they skip obviously better players.
Gerhart is average? Right. I doubt you've bothered to watch him play. Why is it impressive that he's done what he's done with a high number of attempts? Because teams KNOW what Stanford is going to do, and they still can't stop him. They don't run a gimmick offense, they don't run gimmick plays, they run a power offense, teams stack, and he simply bowls people over. Williams does not have similar numbers. He has 7 fewer TDs and 200 fewer yards on those 43 fewer carries. It's not even close. The last MAJOR CONFERENCE back to rush for better than 25 TDs in a season was Ricky Williams. Kevin Smith had 25 during the regular season for UCF a couple of years ago. There's a HUGE difference between 19 and 26 touchdowns. As far as your "similar numbers" argument, why not Case Keenum then? He has the same number of TDs as Moore, with 38, only 3 more INTs, and has passed for 1900 more yards. In fact, he's over 1000 yards ahead of his nearest competitor. Before you mention attempts, he also has a higher completion percentage. Moore also suffers from having his best games against Miami (OH), Louisiana Tech, Nevada (blanked 35 - 0 by Notre Dame), and UC Davis, a team that's not even FBS.
You lost all credibilty with that right there.... I went back and forth between Keenum and Moore but settled on Moore because he is the leader of an undefeated team that is going to the BCS. I really think Keenum has gotten not nearly the respect he deserves. You are right though as the Heisman is crap... like I said before. The night Eric Crouch won it turned into a joke...
How is he any better than most of the RBs in the top 20? The only thing he got is TDs. His average per carry is not in the top 10. His high # of carries is the only thing that's giving him the rushing yard lead. Donald Buckram has a much better run per carry(6.2 vs. 5.7). It's like calling Ovechkin the best goal scorer because he scores the most goals despite the fact it takes him over 100 more shots to do it.
1. Don't compare hockey to football. 2. It's becoming more and more obvious to me that you know nothing about college football. The fact you claim Freddie Barnes out of Bowling Green is the best receiver in the country shows me how much you know about the sport. Toby Gerhart plays against 8 and 9 man fronts each and every week and he still gets the job done. I'm incredibly impressed by how dominant he's been this season. He more than likely won't win the Heisman, but he's got my vote.
I don't see how he's not, #1 in receptions and touchdowns. He obviously very important to the Bowling Green offense. Just like Gerhart he gets the ball a lot so he must be a great receiver. I can just as easily say Barnes gets double teamed a lot but he still catches the ball. Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Does the Heisman go to a stat guy or just a guy on a good team? Only Kellen Moore fits both categories Keenum is a close 2nd teamwise though his numbers except INTs are better. Guy on good team - Moore Stats guy - Keenum BTW - Both guys are on better teams than Stanford.
...you really know nothing about college football. Boise State is a mid-major dynasty. But still, BSU and Houston are non-Big Six teams and Stanford isn't. I don't think understand how important conferences are in college football. On to Freddie Barnes - he plays in a garbage conference (the MAC) against some of the shittiest teams in college football. When Barnes played against a good team (Boise State), he was held to 4 catches for 24 yards - that's 6 yards per reception. Also, against Mizzou, Barnes had a lot of catches, but only 7 yards per reception.
Are you going to compare mid-majors some more? Again...the Pac 10 is a highly underrated conference this season, particularly when it comes to rushing defenses (not passing defenses, by any stretch of the imagination). I really doubt you've watched Toby play. He is Stanford's ENTIRE TEAM. I've never seen anything like it. As Mr. E just told you, teams stack the box against him consistently, knowing that Luck is a rough edged freshman, and Toby simply destroys defenses. Look at what he did against Notre Dame. Forget the total statline. Let's look at how he won that game: Stanford is down 38 - 30 in the 4th Quarter: Toby has 58 of the 77 yards on the next drive (includes a 10 yard holding penalty), and THROWS for a TD on 4th and 4 for 18 yards. It's the only gimmick/gadget play that Stanford has run all season. His yards come out of a straight, vanilla, smashmouth offense. Tied 38 - 38, Stanford gets the ball back: Toby accounts for 54 of 72 yards, scores the go ahead TD. This gives him 205 yards on the day, 3 rushing TDs, and 1 passing TD. As you may have seen if you watched, Stanford STILL had a chance to lose that game. The reason for that? The 97th overall pass defense in the country. Couple that with the 66th overall rush defense and the 60th overall passing game, and you can see why Stanford maybe shouldn't be 8 - 4. How about Stanford WITHOUT Toby Gerhart. Well, let's look at those losses. In Week 2, still trying to find its identity, Stanford loses to Wake Forest. They blow a 14 point lead in the 2nd half. Toby has only 4 carries out of 19 plays, and Stanford loses on the final drive. Take it out of his hands, lose. His worst game of the season because of those measly 4 carries, and he still manages 82 yards. How about Arizona? Another blown lead. The 4th quarter numbers? 20 passes, 3 carries. Toby finishes with 123 yards, 2 TDs, and the defense and passing offense give the game away. Cal? Toby singlehandedly builds up a 14 - 0 lead before Stanford inexplicably starts throwing the ball. Luck and the defense are terrible, and blow the lead. With Cal up 24 - 14, Toby scores again to make it 24 - 21. Cal scores to answer, and let's look at the 4th quarter: Drive 1, down 31 - 21: Luck 3 incompletions, punt. Drive 2, still down: Toby has 2 carries for 26 yards, including a TD run to make it 31 - 28. Of course, Cal scores. Drive 3, still 31 - 28: 3 incomplete passes, 1 rush. Ball turned over on downs. Cal settles for a FG. Drive 4: Time clicking down, Toby takes a short dump pass and breaks 5 tackles en route to a 29 yard gain. Ball at the 13 yard line of Cal. Incomplete pass, INT. Toby finishes with 136 yards and 4 TDs in the loss, and AGAIN got them in position to win. The only game Stanford didn't lose on the final drive? Oregon State. Toby had 96 yards and 2 TDs against a Top 15 rush defense. Buckram faced a Top 15 defense as well. 46 yards and no TDs. Most of his opposing defenses have been terrible playing for UTEP. The fact is, the team lives on his shoulders and dies on the shoulders of everyone else. He gets a lot of carries because no one can stop him and no one else on the team can win football games. Oh, and how about when the spotlight is brightest? Let's look at his stats against Oregon, USC, and Notre Dame (his 3 highest profile games nationally): Oregon - 223 yards, 3 TDs USC - 178 yards, 3 TDs ND - 205 yards, 4 TDs, including the 1 passing TD How the fuck are you going to call him average?
LOL. I know I can't convince the Heisman voters, but I'll be damned if I can't convince people on this board. Toby's been responsible for 99.9% of Stanford's success this season. I can't help but think that Harbaugh as an ex-QB cost us a couple of games this season down the stretch, especially when coupled with a terrible defense.
The last drive of the Cal/Stanford game pissed me off. Harbaugh has to give Gerhart the ball in that situation...instead he lets Luck throw the ball and he's picked. I think Andrew Luck will be a very good quarterback, but you have to put the ball in the hands on your best player.
Notre Dame really? Their defense was subpar all season. Both USC & Oregon give up over 130 yards rushing so they're not exactly great defenses. He has no breakaway speed his longest 3 TD runs in those games 17, 10, & 6. He has 10 catches in 12 games so he's obviously no threat in the passing game unlike Buckram who has over 2000 yards all-purpose. (1500+ rushing & 400+ receiving) 38 carries vs. Oregon 29 vs USC & ND. 96 carries for 606 yards It's good but it's not Heisman worthy especially since there are guys who aren't even considered to be in the running who have better stats. Case Keenum on a 10-2 team has 4922 yards passing(410.2 avg) 38 TD 6 INT 4 rushing TD. Hardly anything said. http://myespn.go.com/s/conversations/show/story/4421124 From a poster at ESPN: "Gerhart is not having a heisman year, compare his stats to last year and the only reason he has 1700 yards this year instead of 1100 he had last year is that he has 100 more carries than he did last year but he is still putting up the 5.5 yards a carry like last year so this is not a special year! Alabama's Ingram has 90 less times thats about 30% less carries than Gerhart yet he has still put up nearly 1500 yards with a 6.5 yards per carry average. Someone who makes more out of less is superior especially against better defensive competition. Key Game Highlights 250 against South Carolina who shut down CJ Spiller another Heisman candidate 150 against Virginia Tech first game of year in Atlanta 175 @ Ole Miss 140 @ Kentucky 144 against LSU I will give you that Gerhart didn't have a let down game like Ingram did against Auburn but I would also say Gerhart doesn't play against the quality of defense every week that Alabama does and Auburn had two weeks to prepare while Alabama only had 4 days from its last game. One last note, Ingram doesn't get as many carries otherwise if he was pulling 30 carries a game like Gerhart he would be averaging close to 200 yards a game and would be over 2000 for the season. And all of this as a sophmore, that is more heisman than Gerhart is."
No. I said when the spotlight was greatest. Spiller sputtered and failed with big eyes on him, and that was against the #50 run defense in the country. USC is #46, BTW. Oregon is #40. 130 yards per game against puts you in the Top 3rd of teams nationally and makes you the 3rd best run defense in the SEC. How's that for some context for those numbers. Again, have you seen him play? Thank you for proving my point. He's not flashy, he's predictable, and he's not much of a receiving threat. And yet, teams cannot stop him. You haven't addressed the fact that teams stack the box against Stanford like no other team in the country, and he still bowls people over. I've never seen anything like it. And why are they able to stack the box consistently? Because STANFORD HAS NO ONE ELSE. He has carried an entire college team for the season and has them ranked at 8 - 4. Buckram has it MUCH easier than Gerhart. He plays for a solid passing team (#19 in the country), and against inferior competition. That's why he's not getting as much recognition. UTEP has other options. He hasn't carried the team, as evidenced by that stellar 4 - 8 record. With a similar defense, a subpar passing game, and tougher competition, Gerhart has carried Stanford. I mentioned Keenum when you were all about Kellen Moore. I think he's an excellent candidate and in dire need of respect. But I've seen that before. Graham Harrell, last year, in fact. He was in a tougher conference, too. I fucking hate the ill informed opinion that Gerhart has faced shit defenses, and I've addressed this before NUMEROUS times. Quality of defense? Alabama and Florida are the class of the SEC when it comes to run defenses. The highest ranked rush defense that Ingram has faced thus far? #44 LSU. Gerhart has faced FIVE run defenses with higher rankings than that. Ingram hasn't had to carry Alabama. The Top 5 defense has done that. He doesn't get 30 carries a game because he doesn't need to take 30 carries a game. His defense is one of the best in the nation. To suppose that his average would hold up for 30 carries and against 8 man fronts is absolutely ludicrous, ESPECIALLY if you throw higher quality run defenses at him.
