I support Vernon Gholston

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Scikotic, Aug 24, 2009.

  1. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    He should have been starting as soon as the Pace suspension was handed down and Ryan announced he will start in his place. I don't get it...
     
  2. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    I hope Ghoston tries to tackle Jacobs high and dumps Jacobs to the ground hard. Instant confidence Ghoston becomes Gholston and goes to Hawaii.
     
  3. Mambo9

    Mambo9 Well-Known Member

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    There is actually more of a chance that if he tries to tackle Jacobs he finishes the season on the PUP list :p
     
  4. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    If he tries to tackle Jacobs high, Jacobs will flatten him.

    Oh, and what he said too ^^^
     
  5. GQMartin

    GQMartin Go 'Cuse

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    ^ I'm playin sunshiner here Don.
     
  6. Don

    Don 2008 TGG Rich Kotite "Least Knowledgeable" Award W

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    oh..................
     
  7. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I didn't look at these 2 plays, maybe later today.

    It's not a 6 LB set, it's a 3-3-5 Nickel set. The personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    This is a play-action pass which end up being defended well by Coleman (amazingly). Gholston hits the C Gap completely unblocked, and bites hard on the play-action. There was no player between #50 and the QB. He was just going in the wrong direction.

    This is a dime set with a delayed blitz by players already mentioned. Personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    I actually think Gholston's assignment was to hold a block for Harris to blitz the outside. Saying Gholston was 'picked up' is being generous. He was actually lined up on the LG, first he got blasted by the guard, knocking him backwards about 4-5 feet. This allowed the LG to move outside and pick up Harris while the LT came out to blast Gholston almost as bad as the tackle did. This was probably VG's worst play of the game. It was also the play that Coleman un-redeemed his good play just before that by getting burned on a double move.

    I believe this was actually 3rd and goal, the Statue Of Liberty play. It was a true 3-4 set, the personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    VG never had a chance, both Ellis and BT were picked up, and the RT and RG pushed Gholston back into the safeties. While you can't expect #50 to beat a double team like this, there is no way in hell will this guy ever produce as a 3-4 DE if he gets destroyed like he did in this play. They just pushed him straight back. The worst part about the play was that Bart Scott blew his assignment on the RB and allowed Rice to trot into the EZ so easily.

    This was another Nickel set, the personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    This was an obvious passing play, the O-lineman as a unit stepped back and Gholston was lined up on the RT, only to duck inside and engage the RG. I think this play may have been effective if Eric Smith had shot the B Gap instead of getting clogged into the A Gap. Had #50 stuck with the RT, Harris goes unblocked around the C Gap and possibly gets some pressure on Flacco. Gholston gets a pass from me here, if only because I think he might have been coached up to fake out the RT and open a lane for Smith inside on this play.


    continues in next post due to image constraints
     
  8. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    --------2nd qtr

    This was another Nickel 3-3-5, personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    Gholston was effectively blocked out of the play with over-pursuit, and allowed a second blocker to pick him up on the backside of the play because he his change of direction is terrible. He lost and momentum he had during that over-pursuit. After watching this one again, it actually gave me a tiny bit of hope that this guy has any heart at all though, even if he was completely ineffective. You are being very generous in your description of this play. What little pocket there was collapsed because BT wrecked Matt Birk and got a hand on Flacco. There wasn't much of a pocket to step into. He just stepped into the hole that should have been occupied by Gholston and took off.


    This is another obvious passing down, a bubble screen, defensive set is classic Nickel, personnel package:

    [​IMG]

    It's not the first time he was put in place as a pass rusher, and it's also not the first time he fails to aggressively pursue the quarterback. Gholston rushes the C Gap and the RT actually puts a swim move on #50 to get outside to his blocking lane for the screen. This basically proves that an offensive lineman for the Ravens has more pass rushing moves than our #6 overall pass rusher. Gholston's arm is bumped in the swim move and he loses all momentum, then jumps up to try to deflect the screen pass. He had plenty of time to pursue Flacco on this play.

    Rex Ryan only put Gholston on the field with his hand on the ground in 3 down linemen sets when the other 2 linemen were pass rushers. On zero occasions that I saw was he lined up with the 3-4 DLs that are normally used for holding blocks - for example, Marquez Douglas, Shaun Ellis, Sione Pouha, etc.

    During every instance that I saw, when he appeared with his hand on the ground, the other 2 DLs were actively rushing the passer. I think your idea that he was being placed in position to hold blocks is tragically flawed.
     
    #268 abyzmul, Aug 31, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2009
  9. ollie

    ollie Right Wing NutJob

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    Be carefull... with posts like that you're getting close to a junc vs cakes style debate... :smile:
     
  10. GreenHornet

    GreenHornet New Member

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    When I first looked at the snap shots of alignments I thought you guys started playing Bingo.
     
  11. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Okay, so normally I don't spend time during a game watching a particular player and breaking down their performance. However, this week I was away for the game, so I watched it TiVo'd, and that allowed me to concentrate on VG's performance.

    Now I understand the "lack of heart" comments. He has the talent, and I still believe the guy can be an elite LB in the NFL, but he plays like a little pussy. I kept screaming at the tv "Get mad DAMNIT!" He gets held, hit low, and pushed around, and he just shrugs it off like "Okay, that's cool. I'll try again next time."

    He needs to get pissed off and knock an OLineman on his ass. A good punch in his mouth might do the trick. The worst part is, he's right there on most plays. He's within a footstep or two from making a play almost every time. It's those holds he's suffering and the blocks he just allows to happen that are keeping him from making big plays.

    I'll agree that it's a problem, and if not fixed, he's going to be a bust, because if he can't put an end to that garbage, he's not going to be able to play in this league.
     
  12. Hobbes3259

    Hobbes3259 Well-Known Member

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    Yup. My thoughts on watching him play exactly.

    He needs to have Patches O'Houlihan give him the 'You gotta get Angry' treatment he gave Gordon in Dodgeball....
     
  13. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Hahahaha, throw a wrench at him Patches!

    If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball!
     
  14. Green&White77

    Green&White77 Member

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    great breakdown of the plays!!
     
  15. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    I also love the breakdowns. I could read them all day!

    They illustrate something that a lot of people seem not to realize. Yes, Gholston lacks fire, but that is NOT his biggest problem. Not even close. His biggest problem is that while his athletic measurables are excellent, everything not measurable is off-the-chart AWFUL. Holding out hope that he becomes an elite player with an attitude adjustment is akin to holding out hope that the Empire State Building will begin to levitate if it really, really wants to.

    btw, this is not "hating." This is "watching TV." I root for every Jets player, and I take a very measured approach to evaluation. I'm getting bored saying this, but I desperate want VG to succeed. And I still do, in whatever kind of home repair or envelope stuffing endeavor that ultimately engages his interest.
     
  16. #28Martin

    #28Martin Well-Known Member

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    Gholston is getting better. He'll end up surprising.
     
  17. tbruner12

    tbruner12 Well-Known Member

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    i sat down last night and broke down the ghost during the giants game. whether he was standing up or had his hand on the ground...he stunk it up. i used a dvr and watched them in slow mo, and if anyone thinks that he was occupying linemen, then they watched a totally different game than i did. what is obvious is that rex is trying to do something with him, but there isnt much that the ghost can do at this point. truth is we got screwed when mangini picked him, and why we would suffer through his whole contract is beyond me. ghost has a very very very long way to go to become a productive member of this team.
     
  18. Dierking

    Dierking Well-Known Member

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    Gholston's like a bowling ball with sporks
     
  19. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I saw what you saw against the G-men. Their O-lineman would keep knocking him around after the play was blown dead and pretty much bitch-slapping him. I think any other player on the team would have gotten pissed off and head-slapped the OL or at least jawed at them. VG just sullenly wandered back to the defensive huddle. Someone needs to sprinkle some steroids in his Cheerios on Sundays.
     
  20. AlioTheFool

    AlioTheFool Spiveymaniac

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    Maybe Mike Vick will play with Vernon's dog before the game. That might wake him up.

    Though he did lay a pretty nasty hit on (Carr) was it? Too bad he used his helmet. What it looked like to me was that he was overly excited to finally be there for a play. Hopefully, that's a sign that he's getting there.

    To be honest, he looked like he was reading plays well on-the-fly during the Giants game. Like I said though, he was letting himself get abused, and that was keeping him from getting to where the ball was in time.

    Again, this was the first time I've really paid singular attention to Gholston during a game, but from what I saw, if he could just get a little piss and vinegar in his veins, he could be a very good player.
     

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