For what its worth, Barry Sanders career avg YPC is within a decimal point of Curtis Martin's career YPC. Now, I don't mean to start another debate on this, but the reason for that is Barry got blown up behind the line for losses more than most backs, which dragged down his average; Martin consistently got forward progress on the majority of his carries. In the end, the numbers average out to nearly identical. So if you judge greatness by applying above average natural talent, Sanders was the greatest. But if you give as much credit to those with less talent who just try harder to stay consistent, there are other backs who could conceivably be higher rated. (I do not specify Martin here; but it might be my vote, if I were asked)
Curtis Martin's career YPC: 4.0 Barry Sanders ' career YPC: 5.0 Not trying to hijack the thread by turning it into an all-time debate and shit.... just my opinion. Sweetness and Brown are legendary in their own right I think the difference is how Sanders played on such shit teams with no offensive line and still did wht he did. ANYWAYS, I'm still of the belief that Leon can't be an every down back. 300+ carries would just kill the guy, but at the same time he doesn't have to be any every down back. We could have a nasty 2 back system for a long time if Greene pans out.
Perhaps this is generational thing. If you didn't see Sweetness play then you really don't know what you are talking about in trying to compare Sweetness to Sanders. Sanders was incredibly good. IMHO Jim Brown was better than Sanders or Payton. Nobody dominated the RB position like Jim Brown. He would kill you if you got in his way. But if you compare Payton and Sanders. Barry was incredible but Payton was stronger, a better blocker a more prolific pass receiver and also threw the halfback pass for TDs and had more yds.
Here is how I'd compare the two, Brown was a freak of nature that was faster than most in his time but had the scary strength of a power back, it would be like a Jerome Bettis with 4.3 speed. Barry's shiftiness and ankle-breaking ability is and has been something that we've never seen before and was in its own world. Payton was more of a hybrid of the two.
Barry Sanders 4.99 Jim Brown 5.22 Walter Payton 4.36 Emmitt Smith 4.16 Eric Dickerson 4.43 O.J. Simpson 4.67 Tony Dorsett 4.34 Tiki Barber 4.71 Marshall Faulk 4.33 Curtis Martin 4.01 Thurman Thomas 4.20 Corey Dillon 4.29 Fred Taylor 4.61 Franco Harris 4.11 Jerome Bettis 3.93 Marcus Allen 4.05 Joe Perry 4.82 LaDainian Tomlinson 4.48 James Brooks 4.73 Ahman Green 4.54 Earl Campbell 4.30 Priest Holmes 4.63 Edgerrin James 4.11 Shaun Alexander 4.43 Ricky Watters 4.06 Jim Taylor 4.43 Warrick Dunn 4.19 Freeman McNeil 4.49 Terrell Davis 4.60 John Riggins 3.89 Five years ago, sometime after I first joined the board, I had an argument about Martin vs Sanders with Winston. I have a special fondness for the players who don't have the natural talent of the very few, but who work harder than everyone else and maintain a consistency throughout long careers. I put that on a level with god-given talent in terms of what makes a player great. Many people don't see it that way, and would think it foolish to even try to compare Curtis with Barry. At the time of that debate, I researched the career numbers of both players. What I found then was a .1% difference in YPC. And I went with that then, and still remember it today, over 5 years later. So tonight, I google it again, and I find this list. So my information from five years ago was either very outdated, or wrong. Damn. I feel like I just lost an argument from five years ago. I guess you can't believe everything you read on the internet :lol:
Jim Brown was great in his time but he would not have had the same success Barry did in the bigger faster NFL like Barry enjoyed.
:rofl::rofl::rofl: That is one of the funnier comments I've seen in awhile. You can only judge players on when they played. You can't really assume that Jim Brown in 1962 would some how be transported to play in 1998 as if it was 1962 - such an assumption makes no sense. So all you can do is judge the player in their era. The NFL in Jim Brown's era was a different game than it was in Barry Sanders era. The rules were significanly changed to help runners and qbs, the fields surfaces were much different to help runners and qbs, there were personal fouls etc etc. Jim Brown was the biggest, baddest, strongest, meanest fullback in the history of the NFL in his era or anybody's era. Period. End of Story. Brown was also fast and had great quickness. Brown was the best running back in the 50's and 60's. He set all the records while playing in less games then the more modern backs did. Jim Brown was a superstar freakshow of an athlete who enjoyed hurting his opponents - liked to run them over. Jim could shake and bake if he wanted to - but he just preferred to run them over because he enjoyed hitting them over and over. : ) At his prime he would have been the best back in the 70's, the 80's, the 90's or the 00's. Barry Sanders was great in his time but would not have had the same success he did playing in the NFL during Jim Brown's time. :grin:
BTW: One of the stupidest arguments made on Barry's behalf is that he somehow got all his yardage while running behind a bad offensive line. That is pure Baloney. Sanders played behind excellent offensive linemen in the 1990s who were a big part of his success. Lomas Brown was one of the best OTs of the 1990s, Doug Widell was a beast and a very sold LG, Glover was a top notch Center and an all pro and Barry's success was definately helped by a good line. Claiming he achieved his success despite his OL is unfair and untrue.
I'm a bit of a young 'un (32) but your top 3 of all-time is Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders. In that order, too. That being said, every Jet fan should expect big things from #29 this year. Simply because, **We don't have a fucking pansy for a head coach anymore.**
Barrys the man no questions asked but I prefer consistency. For as many highlight reel plays he pulled off it was mentioned he also lost yards and that's true. He might break a run for 10+ or lose 5 bc he was running east to west like forest gump with flavor. Give me Brown, Sweetness, LT and Emmitt Smith(the all time leader in rushing yards and butchered english sentences in NFL n American history) over Barry. Maybe even Bo Jackson pre freak injury. He was another amazing player. Back on the topic I think Leon can be Brian Westbrook lite if given the opportunity.
Okay, I stand corrected. I was assuming that based on what I'd heard others in the past say about their OL. However, how can you say Brown would be the best in the 70's, 80's, 90's and 00's right after saying you can only judge a player based on the time he played. I just as easily believe Sanders could have been the best back in the 50's and 60's.
It doesn't get any more consistent than 10 straight seasons of 1000+ yds does it? Only two guys to ever do that are Barry Sanders and Curtis Martin.
I'm happy you brought Bo up. We were deprived the best athlete of our generation because of that hip injury. Not only was he scary good and talented, the man loved the moment. We were truly deprived here. Baseball, too.
I agree about Bo. I also agree that Sanders was par excellence creme de la creme. Brown is sort of on his own island he was a Fullback and the game was different. Now Fullbacks play a different role in the offense if they even have a roll. Ultimately Comparing a smaller runner like Sweetness or Sanders to Brown is probably not useful. Different style, different position, different type of game overall. Put Brown in his own category, watch his highlight films on You tub and enjoy the freak that he was in his era. He'd run over half your D. Whereas Barry would leave your D falling down trying to keep up with him. The similarity w/Sanders and Brown is that they bothy retired at the top of their game - both could have played successfully for many more seasons. Have to respect that about both men. BOT: I think Leon could become a superb running back if he gets the touches and plays designed to exploit his talents. He could be similar to Westbrook.
I know about that statistic but that's not where I was going with the statement. I followed that up with this I don't mind the home run players. Problem with Barry he's one of the all time leader in carries for a loss in NFL history. He might rip one or put you in a 2nd or 3rd n long situation. He's a boom or bust player, which I have nothing against. I'm cool with that style at say WR because a good one will get 5-10 touches a game. But for a player who touches it 20-25 times a game? Can't shoot yourself in the foot too many times with negative plays.
Emmitt Smith doesn't belong in the same category as the rest, he was running behind one of the greatest OL in NFL history and was basically a compiler while Tomlinson was good he already is breaking down as a player, as for Sayers he wasn't even the full time starter.
Gosh, I can't believe nobody has mentioned Walter Peyton yet. He was pretty good. Sanders retired out of respect for Walter's record. One that Sanders woudl have eclipsed had he continued to play. If Sanders played with the Cowboys, 49ers, or Bears of his era instead of the Lions then Sanders would have probably shattered many ruushing records. As far as Jim Brown. Total respect. He was a punishing back. Very difficult to bring down. He really was amazing to watch. Going back to Barry. remember the game when the Jets played the Lions late in the season one year. They held Barry in check for most of the game and then from the middle of the 3rd quarter to the end of the game Barry ran for like a 180 yards with 2 or 3 long TD runs.
