I support Vernon Gholston

i am not usually a roll-my-eyes kind of guy... but right now i am rolling my eyes.

your pro-gholston argument is so nit-picky its unbelievable. i like to think of pass-rushers as offensive players, because in their individual matchups they are the aggressors. the o-lineman, full back, tight end are the defensive guys. a guy on the offensive is only good if he makes his presence felt in a big-time way, which gholston never has.

would we accept a WR who "runs nice routes", but never gets open? no. hell no.

the same logic applies to defensive ends and rush linebackers who make an attempt to get to the QB, but never actually get there.

you make the claim that gholston may not be who we thought he'd be, and therefore rex ryan is putting him in non-pass rushing situations in order for him to succeed in other ways. garbage! you draft a linebacker #6 overall to get to the quarterback. period. if he can't do that, he is a bust. i can find dozens of mediocre linebackers in the middle of the draft and beyond who are good enough to occupy blockers and free up their teammates to make the impact plays. when you're using your #6 overall pick to do that, you're simply admitting that the guy sucks.

 

Oooooooooooo, you rolled your eyes. I'm hurt. Deeply.

Now anyway, getting back to an adult, rational discussion, the question is, what are you willing to accept from Gholston, given that you're paying him no matter what he does as a member of the New York Jets.

Me? I want him to do something. Would I like to see him bloom into an elite pass-rusher? Of course I would. Do I think he will? Probably not. I had the same hopes for Bryan Thomas. Shit happens.

But I'd rather the guy was taking up two blockers, therefore leaving space for someone else to put pressure on the QB, than him sitting on the end of the bench for a few hours every Sunday, while smiling at the bank every week.

And I'd also rather give him a chance to make improvements to his game with the hope that maybe someday he'll "get it."

 

Ok, so Gholston's strength allows him to play on the line in a 3-4. 1) We still don't have a replacement for Pace and 2) He's not being payed like a lineman, he's being payed like a player who's supposed to get at the QB. This is money we could be paying Leon but can't now because it's going direct deposit to Gholston's retirement fund rather than Leon's "Thanks for being amazing! Sincerely, Howard Wood Johnson IV" fund.

As for your Bryan Thomas "Shit Happens" point: Great! Now we have two OLBs who aren't worth shit for QB pressure! The fact that Scik has to go through and micro-analyze Gholston's performance shows exactly how invisible he is on the field. We could have gotten Gholston's production out of a lot of different people much later on in the draft. Instead, we spent the #6 pick on a guy who doesn't know how to play football. Considering where he was drafted, he has bust written all over him.

 

i respectfully request opinions be reserved until week 3 when he's a few games with big jenks and all the blocking schemes get changed big time

 

Okay, so what do you propose we do with him?

You're making a silly argument. You can't use that money to pay Leon. You'd never have had the opportunity to use it, whether we drafted Gholston or not.

He's not what the Jets expected. Honestly, I don't even remember whether I wanted him or not. All I remember is that I didn't want McFadden in that draft.

It sucks that Gholston isn't the guy we need him to be. I'm not defending him on grounds that he's an awesome pass-rusher. All I'm saying is that I'd rather keep hoping he develops into something rather than being just a waste of cap space. If that means he becomes good at taking up multiple blockers so someone else can get penetration, then so be it. It's better than paying him to do absolutely nothing. And who knows? We need to get younger at DE anyway, so maybe we'll get lucky and he'll be well-suited to that role when Pace gets back.

Like I said, shit happens. You either sit around bitching about it, or you try to make it better. Rex is trying. And it's not even his mess to clean up.

 

nice observation scik. I'm not a Ghost hater, i hope (like most) he does well. But i'm smart enuf to know that not everyone on the field makes an impact on every play or any play. let's just hope VG contributes positively in some way.

As this is a Jets board, expect no retort to your post from the "bust" labeler's, except their own preconceived football perception.

 

You're right, we couldn't have used the money on Leon. Still, we could have used the draft pick on someone who would have been a better player for this team. We cannot go back and redo the pick but he's not going to help us the way we need him to. He could be useful in other ways but that still doesn't solve the problems that we have. He's a project that we do not have the time to develop right now.

Everyone that we can use to rush the passer instead of him is going to be someone that we could have used in coverage against someone else. If we rush Scott or Harris more we leave the TEs open and if we use Rhodes or Leonhard we lose our weapons in coverage over the middle and against the deep ball. We're probably going to have to use two tiered blitzes to make up for the lack of an outside rush which means taking both an ILB and a safety or corner out of the coverage scheme. Unless Cummings, Trusnik, or Westerman can fill in as a pass rusher or coverage guy on the outside we're going to be in trouble against the Texans, the Patriots, the Titans, and the Saints.

 

maybe they just need to say bad things about his momma



Rex: "Vern, Tom Brady said your momma was a whooooooooo..............."

 

Nice job Scik. I hope you can continue to track him like this and break down what he's actually doing.

Very useful post.

 

Well, if you've read any of what I've written lately, I've been predicting a 4 win (6 tops) season anyway. Therefore, we were in trouble with or without trying to cultivate Gholston. Given that, there's no reason not to try to coax something out of him, and hopefully have him going forward.

(BTW: I'm fairly sure I wanted Ellis in that draft. I may have wanted Gholston more, but I think it was Ellis who topped my list. So I definitely agree we could have used that pick better.)

 

I have to admit, Jenkins being out has been a major wrench in the gears. Still, Harris seems to be getting the job done. I'll give him a chance with our starting NT before I completely hate him being on this team, but I'm not expecting much.

 

Came across this line reading a different article altogether. I didn't realize this was the perception.

"Two, the Jets grossly over-paid the sixth slot last season with disappointing pass rusher Vernon Gholston............"

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9980810/Last-two-draft-holdouts-far,-far-away-from-signing

 

:metal::metal::metal:

Thank You very much Scik!!!! I think you hit the nail on the head here. There seems to be this ridiculous notion on this board that after only 1 season VG should be pronounced a complete and utter bust and discarded as a useless football player. In fact as most INTELLIGENT football fans know - it often takes more than 1 season for good NFL players to make the transition to the NFL. The fact is that VG is not being asked to go get the QB on every play - on many plays his job is to eat up blockers - this fact is especially true with Jenkins out of the lineup. People may also forget that he was a DL in college and he was asked to adjust to LB in the NFL. Bottom line is that I think trashing Gholston is wrong, he deserves an opportunity to improve under Rex Ryan and I think he's going to wind up being a good ballplayer for the Jets.

 

Uhh, most of us are watching the games which is how we've drawn our opinions. I don't care about Gholston's sacks, or hurries, or knockdowns or deflected passes. I care about him breaking off blocks and making tackles and if you WATCH the game, you can clearly see he frequently gets owned. He gets no push or penetration, he doesn't fill gaps, he can't cover, and he reacts late. I know things like zone and man coverage and filling gaps may be new to him, but this isn't QB and the learning curve for LB is not that hard here folks. Look at Jerod Mayo, that scheme in NE is pretty tough, no? He adjusted fine.

They screwed this kid by moving him to LB.

I'm tired of the announcers and everyone else saying, "Gholston is thinking too much, he needs to just play and react..." Fuck that.

 

I just read them (good breakdown)...

I haven't heard anything of how he was intended to be used. Are you really comfortable supporting a $20Mil who's sole purpose is occupying blockers? LB is much more dynamic than that. Coverage is a major issue here.