Let's review the record breaking season by Brady vs. the record breaking season by Manning. I posted this earlier: 2008 Brady threw for 4806 yards and 50 TDs and a 117.2 rating 2004 Manning threw for 4557 yards and 49 TDs and a 121.1 rating Brady threw 83 MORE passes than Manning did in the comparison. If you prorate Mannings pass attempts to equal the number Brady threw Manning would have thrown for 57 TDs and 5300 yards. Also, YAC numbers are important when determining a QBs impact on the numbers they put up. In 2004 the top 6 Colts receivers caught the ball on average 8.6 yards past the LOS. The top 3 recievers (Wayne, Harrison and Stokley) caught the ball on average 11.8, 10.1 and 9.8 yards past the LOS respectively. In 2007 the top 6 Patriots recievers caught the ball on average 7.3 yards past the LOS. The top 3 recievers (Moss, Welker and Stallworth) caught the ball on average 12.2, 4.8 and 8.0 yards past the LOS. Brady typically lives and dies by the quick / short passing system that NE uses that gets receivers in space to do all the damage after they catch the ball (see JR Redmond). This system allows the ball to get out of Brady's hands quickly limiting the amount of mistakes that can be made. Manning goes down the field more getting the ball to the open reciever. These are team results.
Let's not forget the important dome factor. In 2004 Manning played 8 games in a dome, the 2007 Pats played ONE game in a dome. Also, div rd of the playoffs peyton and his record breaking O put up a whopping THREE points on the board. Brady's #s wetn down too but he led a potential GW TD drive in the SUPER BOWL only to watch his D give it right back- name me the postseason loss where Manning led a great drive to put his team up late only to watch his D blow it?
The Giants got hot at the right time and that D allowed Brady to go 80 yds to take the lead w/ about 2 mins left. The '86 Giants beat 2 great teams in SF and Washington in the NFC playoffs giving up a combined 3 points and they whalloped Denver 39-10. In 3 postseason games they allowed 13 points- 3 less than the '07 Giants averaged giving up per game in the 2007 playoffs. AGAIN, In 17 playoff games w/ Brady the Pats D has allowed 18.2 PPG In 15 playoff games w/ Manning the Colts D has allowed 20.4 W/ the talent around him on O and w/ as great as Peyton is he should have been able to put up more points and win more SBs w/ his D's. How did Brady choke qwhen he led his O on an 80 yd TD drive to take the lead in the SB w/ just over 2 mins left?
My mistake on the years. He still had Vinny for 2 full years and part of a 3rd. Vinny back then was better than Cassell in 2008. I'm not cherry picking at all. I am discussing their postseasons, one guy elevates his team and one holds his team back. Winston is wrong on most issues but anyone who thinks the '07 Giants were better than the '86 Giants just doesn't have a clue about the NFL. That gameplanning allowed the D to blow that SB lead and Brady was in a hurry up so how much influence did the CS have at that moment? If it is Manning the playcaller holding them back then maybe Peyton should ask for Tom Moore to call plays? Brady led NE to 10 4th qtr points to give NE a 10 pt lead, what was wrong w/ what he did? He played it safe knowing a FG would essentially wrap iy up- Peyton probably goes for the TD and turns it over. Postseason is more important than the reg season, I'd rather my QB be ok in the reg season and grat in jan/Feb like Ben was than great in the reg season and a choker in jan/Feb like Peyton is. In 2007 Ben had a great regular season but a bad game in their playoff loss to Jax. You'd rtaher see that season than 2008?
The last time they meet in the AFC Championship game, in doors in perfect conditions Manning kicked his ass all over the field in crunch time. With the lead and the ball at the 3:22 mark, Brady went three and out took off 1:05 seconds off the clock. Manning than drove the ball 80 yards in 7 plays to take the lead and Brady than threw a pick on the next possession.
kicked his ass by winning by 4 points needing a big 2nd half comeback while Brady was throwing the ball to Reche Caldwell(who dropped a TD pass that probably changes that game) and Jabar Gaffney. Brady can't be perfect all the time, just getting that team to the title game was miraculous and he still nearly beat Peyton and the Colts.
It does matter. He was going downfield all game long with little to no results then they decide to go back to the quick/short passing game and down the field they go...mostly on the legs of Welker and Faulk.
he got the job done, right? he was harrassed all game long by the Giant pass rush. You think Peyton withstands all those hits and finds a way to lead his team to an 80 yd TD drive in the final minutes to take the lead? Not a chance.
They run different offensive systems. If the Colts ran a quick passing offense then Peyton absolutely would be able to manage the offense. That drive was a bunch of dinks and dunks while the Giants D was playing loose to not let up the big play. That was not a drive where Brady carried them down the field.
Did he lead them to the TD? Name me the playoff game where Manning led his O on a TD Drive late in the game to take the lead only to watch his D blow it? You can say dinks and dunks and all that but after taking a pounding all night he got back up and led his team for the potential GW drive in the final minutes.
I thought record was the most important thing? Cassell had a better record. How else are you measuring QB at this point? Besides, my point was that Belichick has better success with players he has developed. That holds true with Cassell (11 - 5) over Testaverde (16 - 15). If Cassell as a fresh QB under Beli can develop a better record than a "better" QB, who's to say that the same couldn't be true of Brady v. Manning? If playoff success is the only measure that really counts, how many all-time greats are we wiping off the list? Tarkenton never won a Super Bowl, so he must not qualify. I'd hardly call that 4th quarter "Brady leading them to 10 points". Their TD to start the 4th quarter came on a drive with 4 passes for 36 yards...and 2 of those passes were screens for 26 of those yards! He essentially completed two passes for a grand total of 10 yards. Kevin Faulk did more than twice that amount of damage on screens, and another 34 came on the ground. On the last drive, they gained 15 yards on a rushing the passer, Dillon rushed the ball down to the 4 yard line. A TD would have put the game far out of reach. Brady DID go for the TD to put the game away and failed. Anyone who saw that game knows that Brady didn't win it. He didn't "lead the team" to those points, nor did he step up when he was needed. He took the snaps and let his offense go to work. The system won that day. That's what makes Brady so successful: he can win some games on his own, but most of the time he doesn't have to! He's efficient and a great game manager with above average tools. I happen to think that he's in the right situation and he's done better with that than any other QB currently in the league. Ben was "great" in Jan/Feb? He was decent. Once again, his defense won those games. Ben is an above average QB with two clutch plays in the entire postseason. He's along for the ride. He completed fewer than 50% of his passes, and if you take away one bit of blown coverage, he's 15/32 for 190 yards and no TDs. Flacco's horrible day and the Steelers' opportunistic defense won that game.
Dinks and dunks don't impress me and I certainly don't consider that a QB leading his team down the field. He couldn't march them down the field by attacking the secondary all game long so they went back to their bread and butter. That's fine and all, but let's give the credit to where it deserves. The system and the recievers making plays after they catch the ball. That drive wasn't a Montana drive.
True, although I do think he was more than capable of marching a team down the field in his final 2 seasons before his injury in 2008. Still, it can hardly be thought of as coincidence that as he's been given that opportunity more and more, he's failed to win a championship. In fact, I'd argue his worst performance in the postseason came in that Chargers game in the AFC Championship. Thankfully for him, the Chargers were worse that day and the Patriots defense kept them out of the end zone.
Is Junc still in here telling you how Belichick sucks and Brady will retire with 37 rings? I called my Senator and requested the ARCs of NY stop allowing patients on line. We'll see.
Now it has to be a young QB he drafted? Vinny was still young enough but why didn't he draft a QB until his 5th year there? Tarkenton reached 3 Super Bowls, you don't have to have 3 SB wins or reach 3 SBs but you have to elevate the team around you and w/ the talent around him he hasn't done that. Great reg seasons are nice but, much like ARod, you have to validate that success w/ postseason success. He's been around 11 seasons and has made just one SB. Marino never won one but he didn't have near the talent around him that Peyton has had which is why I rate Marino higher even though he didn't win a SB. My God you guys whine about every pass he makes, if it was so easy to stop those dumpoffs why haven't opposing D's done it and why isn't Peyton using it more? He led his team to a 10 pt 4th qtr lead in the Super Bowl but- he didn't do anything to win that game? come on. he also tore apart the #1 ranked Pitt D on the road in the title game but I guess that was all his teammates too? Tom Brady is one lucky guy that he has played w/ such amazing players and coaches. I guess it's all a coincidence those players and coaches never won anything before he got there so he's just really lucky. Ben had zero turnovers in the 2 AFC playoff games and led his O to 51 points in 2 playoff games. Nah he sucked:drunk: He sucked in their first Super Bowl but was tremendous in leading Pitt to that SB. In 2005 he threw 7 TDs and 1 INt in their 4 postseason games contrast that w/ Peyton the following year in their SB run where in 4 games he threw 3 TDs and 7 INTs. Wins impress me. How exciting was it losing w/ Favre last year? I don't care how it gets done to take the pounding he took all game and bounce back to lead your team to the go ahead TD in the final minutes is damn impressive. if it was so easy why aren't more QBs doing it? Why has Peyton NEVER done it in postseason?
I have to compliment you, you have presented an overwhleming case in favor of peyton. I especially loved when you told me Peyton was better than Brady- I am now convinced:rofl:
I'm waiting for you to show me one thing, that isn't team based, that gives Brady an edge. One thing. Until then, as always, your just blowing smoke up everybodies ass. The only stat you allow is Brady's TD record, only 1 more then Manning who owned the record first I might add. The rest of the INDIVIDUAL stats are fantasy numbers. Go figure. The department where Manning makes Brady look like a kid isn't allowed in a Junc argument. Your argument, as always, is an epic failure. It's following suit with your life, congratulations.
I have showed you a million reasons, you haven't shown a thing. It's not my fault you allow others to make judgements for you and you cannot understand the game for yourself. Rather than hurl insults just pay attention and you might learn a thing or two. Other posters are at least trying to state a case for manning and I respect that.
