I'd say Brady by a hair, but I think Roethlesberger needs to be in the discussion as well. And I'll just add the obligatory "really hate them all equally."
The more I look at it the more I think that Harrison was partly a product of Manning. He did nothing before he got there. Everyone says that Manning has always had great WRs, but maybe he just elevates receivers to elite status?
He had 1700 yds and 14 TD's his first two years, those numbers aren't bad at all especially since it was the first two years of his career
Yeah, that's right. It's hard to knock Harrison's production in 1996 and 1997. He was a good WR those two years. It's very rare when any WR is great out of the gate. John Jefferson and Randy Moss were great instantly. Jerry Rice was very good as a rookie and great by year 2. Most take three or four years to put it all together, though.
I should show you Belichick's stats with and without Eric Mangini on his staff. It wasn't 2-1 this morning. It never was 2-1.
Fellaz .. We'll be here till the cows come home with this one .. Let's just enjoy watching both of them (no homo) ..
Honestly if you put either on a roster that has at least some talent you have yourself an automatic playoff contender.... they're both once in a generation type players so you can't go wrong with either. The Pats defense definitely helped Brady out in the playoffs but that's not exactly his fault. And on the other hand Manning had the better offensive weapons every year up until 2007 and we all know what happened then. I have to go with Brady just because of the rings and his '07 performance.... plus he's never quiet matched and of Manning's post-season shitshows although he's had a few bad playoff games. And could someone please explain what the fuck "system quarterback" actually means? If there was a magical offensive that made mediocre qb's great, everyone would use it. Every team has a "system". The best qb's learn and thrive in their team's system.
I think Brady benefited with playing for Belicheat. I think he is a system QB Manning on the other hand is like the QB and the OC of his team. So I'll go with Manning
A system QB wins a single superbowl. This guy has won 3, holds the record for TDs in a single season and is the only QB to play 16 games and not lose. He was a system QB in 2001. He's the real deal...the sooner you realize it, the better.
Who cares? Now you have to have winning TD throws or runs in the SB? How many does peyton have? Brady did lead his team to the go ahead TD w/ 2 mins left in SB XLII- has Manning ever doen that late in a playoff game? Completely meaningless. The Cotls D was completely different w/ Bob sanders who missed most of 2006. The '06 Colts gave up 12.75 PPG in their 4 postseason games in 2006. The best year for NE their D gave up 15.6 in their 2001 run. In '03 they gave up 19 PPG, in '04 they gave up 17 PPG. That is more meaningful than regular season rankings. You are so over your head here. Why was NE 5-11 in 2000 and 0-2 in 2001 then became a dynasty once #12 stepped on the field? I am not addressing you specifically but rather all of the people viewing this thrad so they can better understand what has been going in the last decade or so. Many fans are wowed by individual #s so they think Manning is better but the 2 aren't close. The one year Brady had comparable weapons to what Peyton has had he smashed his records and didn't get 8+ games in domes to do so. Individual #s are fantasy #s, when you put up those amazing #s in the reg season but can't come close in postseason what do those #s matter? He'll be remembered as THE best UNLESS Manning goes on a tear these next few years and plays in January like he does Sept-Dec. If it's all about the system in NE then why is BB's record so poor w/o Brady? I love that argument, that Brady is a "system QB" but if that is the case why hasn't BB had success w/o him? Take away the 2001 SB for Brady and he still has one more SB title and 2 more SB apps in 3 LESS seasons. In '06 manning had on good hal;f in 4 postseason games. he was carried throughout that postseason by his running game and Defense. If we pkay the what if game we can take away that from peyton, right? I am telling the truth. Peyton is an all-time great REGULAR SEASON QB but an average postseason QB. It's not just about SB apps or wins, it's abou what Peyton has done to try to gte his team there. 1999: lost at home 19-16, score late TD to make score look closer. Neded to recover onside kick to have a chance but they didn't. 2000: against a legendary postseason choking Defense in Miami could only lead his O to a FG in the 2nd half as they lost in OT. 2002: SHUT OUT against the Jets, the Raiders would score 30 on us a week later. 2003: 4 INTs against NE 2004: led Colts to THREE points 2005: was given multiple gifts, a clear Troy Polamalu INT that was overturned then the Bettis fumble at the GL and Indy returning it near midfield(I can't wait for the excuses about the kicker). 2007: he actaully led his O to 20+ points BUT an INT at the end of the first half cost them a FG opportunity and then on the first possession of the 2nd half he threw an INT on 3rd and 3 from the SD 4. They lost by 4 points, he gave away at least 6. 2008: made one play in the 2nd half catching SD napping and hitting Wayne fopr an easy long TD. All he needed was one first down on their 2nd to last drive in regulation and the game was over. On 3rd and 2 he takes a sack and gives SD great FP to tie it and win it in OT. They lost 5 more games in 2008 than they did in 2007 against an easier sched. That QB of that choke led an 80 yd TD drive in the final minutes to give his team the lead- has peyton EVER done that in a postseason game? Brady has only had similar offensive personnel to what Manning has had ONE time and he made the SB and went 16-0. The Colts Ds have been good enough to win multiple SBs w/, you don't have to have the '00 Ravens or '85 Bears to win a SB. In 17 playoff games w/ Brady the Pats D has allowed 18.2 PPG In 15 playoff games w/ Manning the Colts D has allowed 20.4
If you credit the coach then why was Tony Dungy able to make an NFC Title Game w/ Shaun King and why hasn't BB made any other QBs great? Why w/o Brady has BB never made a Title game? and the 2001 offense was built for Bledsoe not Brady. Brady was definitely more of a game manager his first year but he instantly transformed that team from the look of a 4-12 or 6-10 type team to SB Champs. What has BB and his system done w/ Brady? Bill Belichick W/o Brady(7+ seasons, 113 games): 51-62 ONE postseason app ONE postseason win ZERO div titles 5 losing seasons, 2 winning seasons WITH Brady(7+ seasons, 111 games): 87-24 SIX postseason apps 14 postseason wins SIX div titles 4 AFC Titles 3 SB titles 7 winning seasons I would want Ben if I couldn't have Brady. He was entering his 3rd year which is typically when WRs start to get it and in year 2 he had 73 recs, 866 yds and 6 TDs then the next year with Peyton he caught 59 passes for 576 yds and 7 TDs.
All it takes is the right system and a quarterback will throw 50 touchdowns in one season and break the single season record for td to int ratio.
So Brady is the real reason the Pats win. LOL Sorry, Brady is damn good, but give BB a few years to develop a replacement, and they will move right back up.
