Sorry to break it to you, but the 3/4 Dline unit with the best sack and tackle totals, usually get the most praise! Coinicidnece? Could be.
You do realize that Shaun Ellis and Kris Jenkins combined had as many sacks as the entire Steelers DL, right?
which of course is good because kenyon Coleman didnt have any sacks last year.... heck did he even have 1 sack in his entire tenure?
I'm pretty sure he had one in 07'. Could be mistaken, but like I said, I'm pretty sure that he had one.
I originally posted this "article" not because I thought it was from a reputable source, but more just to point out the broad statement this guy was making. I would have posted it whether it was on nfl.com or imafootballdumbass.com I wasn't pretending that this guy was by any means a reputable football mind. He may or may not be. Chances are he's not. OK he's definitely not.
The very premise of the article was bogus. "The most overrated" Does that mean he had them rated that high? Nobody else does. So where does that come from?
nice try. they said its irrelevant, you tried to make it relevant and got beat at your own game. you lose.
Obviously someone is giving the Jets credit. I would have to think with the additions of Ryan, Scott and Leonard there could be some out there thinking the Jets are suddenly the Ravens. I happen to think the Jets have the portential to be the best defense in the division. It's all gonna come down to how Ryan handles being a HC. Will he try to be a HC, or will he be a DC with a HC title? I think If Ryan sticks to what he knows best and allows the rest of his staff to handle their jobs without his input, I think the Jets will have a very good if not great season defensively. Time will tell.
I agree, not sure who has really rated anything yet here in June. Sure Rex and some players are running their mouths, but that means little in June and is just to try to set a new tone.
You can think what you like but the better your Dline plays and the more production you get from that unit, the better your defense is overall. Be it the 3-4, 4-3, or cover 2. I'm not disputing the fact that the 3-4 isn't about tackles and sacks. I'm disputing the fact that sacks and tackles aren't important regarldess where they come from and the more sacks and tackles a 3-4 dline has, the better defense will be. When you're getting production from your Dline in the form of tackles and sacks, life is easier on your LB's and DB's.
This is another example of how bad you are at debating. It's not relevant, but it blows your stupid argument out of the water anyway.
This is a non starter here. You are arguing that if one facet of your D is better, in this case the Dline, than the whole unit is better. Well that is obvious. It is like saying, the better we play, the better we will be. Great point. LOL. In this case, you are referring to tackles and sacks, but in the 3-4, which I think has been brought up an infinite number of times, it is not so much the job of the dline to rack up stats, they are there to plug the gaps and take pressure of the linebackers, in my eyes the real playmakers of the 3-4. I agree with the sentiment on here that constant pressure is more important than sack totals, something the Jets could not do consistently. Regardless of dline or linebackers, it has to happen.
Well, apparently the posting has now been deleted. I think the following comment was where the highly ranked statement came from: "Recently, ESPN rated the Jets as the No. 4 overall team defense, behind the Steelers (No. 1), Ravens (No. 2), and Vikings (No. 3). Seriously? Come on now." Had to find cached version of article on google. Still haven't seen where espn rated anyone's defense. Maybe one of the guests on ESPN tv may have said it in passing? Can't find this anywhere on the internet. Maybe this guy made it up.
It doesn't matter what the premise of a Defense is, sacks and tackles matter if they are coming from the dline. You can't simply ignore them and say well they don't really count because they aren't suppose to come from 3-4 Dline. If a 3-4 Dline line is getting more sacks and tackles than "the norm" it's relevant! The problem is the genralization trying to be forced into this argument. You can't say all 3-4's are the same and their effectivness and production will all be the same, simply because there is a philosophy behind the scheme. You go out and sign players that are capapble of producing sacks and tackles in a 3-4 defense than those numbers suddenly become relevant. If on the other hand you add players just to gobble up Olinemen and allowing your LB's and DB's to tackle and get to the QB, than your not going to get the same type of production form those 3-4 Dlinemen. It's all predicated on the type of T's on your line. It just happens that Ellis and Jenkins are very good at getting to the QB and tackling behind the LOS, therefore their numbers are relevant and change the complection of the typical 3-4 defense.
Well obviously the guy who wrote the article about the Jets D being overrated while they have yet to prove they are the 4th best defense in the league had a legit beef. I think considering the Jets finished the 08 season ranked 16th overall, moving up 12 spots into the top 5 is quite a leap. I can't see how Jet fans could disagree.
No one is saying all 3-4 dline players are the same. Not sure what you are presenting here as you keep editing your posts after the original post. Obviously, more sacks from your dline and tackles is a good thing, no one can dispute that. But it cannot be where you look for that type of production. The 3-4 is predicated on the LBs making the plays, unless I am misreading this type of D. The dline you would hope gets a good push and occupies the line to allow free movement for the LBs. You keep bringing up stats in tackles and sacks and for this type of defense, you can't always rely on numbers. Ellis had a great year for a 3-4 lineman with what 8 sacks, best at his position I believe. But do you consider him to be better than Richard Seymour, who had less? I would say no. Plus that would not be considered a top line number for a 4-3 defensive lineman due to scheme and setup. The constant pressure and push by a 3-4 dline is more important than numbers.
This thread didn't really pick up steam when it was created. Then it jumped to 5 pages long. I had an idea as to how it got to 5 pages so quickly. Still, I decided to click the thread and take a peek. Lo and behold, I was correct. FTP is here trying to drop some knowledge on people on how the 3-4 works (and failing miserably). What a troll.
