I've gotten out of 8 consecutive pullovers without a ticket. I have some minor credentials like a state police decal, but nothing with too much clout. I act.. guilty, like i'm angry at myself, and borderline apologetic.
Your normal, average ticket does not take 14 minutes to write. However, again, a situation in which someone tries to leave the vehicle during a traffic stop changes everything. This guy didn't use great judgment, and I already said that the prudent thing to do would have been to walk inside with them and verify the story. I think that might have still happened had they waited in the car for him to approach and explained what was going on. The whole thing could have ended very quickly. As soon as they left the car, it changed. Officers are trained to react in a defensive and cautious manner in that situation. Still, you're right. It shouldn't have taken 14 minutes. As far as judgment is concerned, I'd say a lack of proper judgment for most cops would have involved a firm cuffing of the driver if he continued to resist orders to return to the vehicle. And a lawsuit? Come on. He didn't put Moats at risk or harm him.
So, you have a beef with cops because they don't bend the rules when you're polite and cooperative, but you want them to have unimpeachable moral character? Cops generally allow a warning when they feel the person driving is understanding of what they did and repentant. This guy was neither. Again, I agree that the cop was in the wrong here, and I've already stated what should have happened to ensure safety while helping Moats reach his mother in law. Of course, the easiest solution is to just not run the damn red light.
The cop was still delaying even after the Nurse came out to explain the gravity of the situation. This cop was on a total power trip, thank god they are not all like this.
No, I'm not saying they should bend the rules for me, I'm saying they should treat men and women the same and given my girlfriend a ticket. And yes, I do think officers of the law should have impeccable moral character.
the tried and true emotional distress. the cop deliberately held him while he knew the mother was dying, not to simply write the ticket, but to lecture him and check for warrants. not every traffic stop is checked for warrants, so there had to be a reason here. a good lawyer can stick that to some bias or negligence here, and it wouldn't bother me any. had he just written the ticket and let him on his way, no problem.
i know saying all cops are dicks isn't really a fair statement so ill say 95% of cops are dicks. if you are or happen to know someone in the other 5% awesome but you are in the sever minority. i also dont like to pull the race card but could this be anything but racism? this officer watched a man plead with him to just let him go see his dying mother in law and all he could tell him was that his attitude sucks? the fucking clown even had another officer telling him let the guy go and all he could say is "im almost done" congrats on being an awful human. give a high school drop out a gun and a badge and this is what should be expected. again i know im not being fair to the few decent and intelligent cops out there, but again those guys are so few and far between that it makes it hard to remember they exist.
the only thing you aren't being fair about is calling them high school dropouts. most of these guys are just high school graduates. didn't realize you guys had the same problems in the UK.
Cops tend to be dicks, its just the natural order of things. All the responsibility they carry for a starting salary in the 40k area. Who wouldn't be a dick
Sad thing is if Moats tried to make a run for the hospital this prick would of fired his gun or beat him down with his baton. People want to say he was following the law...Well how come some of his pig friends said he could of used better judgement? Or handle the situation better..."My mother is dying" is freaking enough to realize shit is up...They MADE it to the hospital, that's what's even worse.
I like you as a poster, but have a number of issues with your post. I am not a card carrying liberal, not by a long shot, and I don't blame race relations on every negative thing that ever happens to my people. But it always amuses me when people think that for something to be racist, there must be a racial slur, or even getting roughed up. The "race card" as people love to call it, is legiitimate when a person can point to behavior or a set or circumstances that a reasonable person (stupid law talk, but all I've got) can see that a person of another race would not be treated the same way in a same or similar circumstance. Is there a chance that cop would have been a dick to a car full of white people who pull into a hospital parking lot and say that they're rushing to the side of a dying relative. It's possible, this isn't What If... and I'm not a Watcher. But in my experience, I think while anything is possible, it's not probable, or likely, a white family would have had a similar experience. It's very easy when you've never endured something to judge it. But I typically don't think I'm in a position to judge a woman's labor pains, since it is something I never have or never will experience. It bugs me when people are so dismissive of a person who feels they have been wronged based on experience. I think the only other issue is, when you're removed from a situation, it's easy to asses it rationally. But issues of death and dying rarely provike reasoned thought. If I were in the situation, and I'm literally trying to beat someone's life clock (she died in the time it took that cop to be an ass and give the ticket), I may not think things totally through either. Like minds can differ, but I think (or hope) we can universally agree that no matter what the motive, the cop's reaction was not the greatest, and it prevented not just Moats, but the woman's father (the greater tragedy in this story) from saying good bye and being by her side when she passed.
By the way, I've been on the receiving end of treatment by cops I've KNOWN were motivated by race, but I feel uncomfortable saying "ALL" cops are dicks, assholes, or whatever. Some are, some aren't. Unfortunately, cops are human beings, and many human beings tend to be dicks or assholes regardless or race, religion, gender or profession. Why I hope Obama passes the RoboCop Bill of 2009.
I agree with you, to an extent. I assume the cop probably drew his taser, not his gun.. easy to mistake. Once you exit the car, the cop is trained to be on the defense. I don't blame him for any of that. I'm not even going to call it a racial thing, even though I know from LEO that they all stereotype.. And depending where they work. I can't say I blame them. But this guy was on a straight power trip, flexing his muscle. Should he lose his job? I think so. If he doesn't. He needs to definitely be evaluated, and maybe forced to do ride alongs again. His abuse of power was disgusting.
That's an amazing record--I went about 5 in a row once--then, I got written up. The next time I was pulled over about 4 months later, written up again. The second cop was his usual nice self until he checked my record. Then, he came back to the car like a bitch and there was no talking to him. Lesson: Don't get pulled over within 18 months of a ticket because you will get another one.
Fair enough. I definitely agree the cop's reaction was not the greatest, and that he should have been punished. I certainly didn't express myself well on Moats if that's how my stance was perceived. I don't blame him for his reaction, but I feel it was responsible for the initial reaction of the cop. From minute two on, the cop was at fault. They should have been in the hospital within 3 minutes of the initial stop. We will have to agree to disagree on the race card issue. I've been in the car with my brother in law when he's been pulled over for being black while driving a BMW in a nice neighborhood. I've had a cop ask me if I was ok with one hand on his gun when he saw me in the passenger seat. I really don't think this situation was racially motivated. I think it was motivated by circumstance and the cop's mentality once he was out of the car. Like you said, the cop decided to take a power trip once he was out of the car and already defensive. I didn't, and still don't, like some of the reactions and comments about cops in general. Regardless, if I'm the only one who feels the guy should be punished, but not fired, I need to re-evaluate my position on the matter.
Agreed. Which is why I liked Ignatius' (sp) beginning on agreeing to disagree. I wish people would do that more often. Have different opinions and beliefs and yet respecting those of others.
The bottom line here is that this young man is damn lucky his mother-in-law was the only one that died that night. When a Cop feels the need to touch his weapon, things already hinge on threat assessment. And as history has demonstrated, "threat assessment", when it comes to Black men, usually means justifiable use of deadly force. In this case, the cop felt threatened to the point that he had to make his weapon ready for deployment. Usually, these situations don't end well for Black men. Moats had a Angel on his shoulder in that situation. He could very easily be dead today. Regarding the Cop, I have a feeling his law enforcement career just took a fatal hit. No way will his judgement be trusted going forward and the 1st time he smokes a guy, you better believe this situation will be bought up. He's only 25 and has time to consider a different career. His judgement was horrible. His reactions is subject to question and unfortunately, his decision making in this situation will shade any career he might have in law enforcement. Too bad Blackwater is out of business.. Then again, Texas is a "hole nuther kuntrie"..
cops are completely justified in having their weapons ready if they are wary, and running a red light, not pulling over and jumping immediately out of your car is a reasonable situation for a cop to be wary. being wary doesn't equate to feeling threatened, and it is a huge leap in logic to claim he was. if the cop had felt threatened, he would have behaved in a more defensive manner. but he wasn't, he was just a dick. I'd address the racial issue, but you would just claim I am pulling my hood out because one is automatically racist in your book if they don't take the black victimization side.
I hear where you are coming from CMan, but look at it from the other end of the perspective. They just had a huge memorial service for four dead cops after stopping a guy for a routine traffic stop that turned into a killing spree. Cops are out there for our protection, but it is imperative that they do what is necessary to protect themselves first. That said, I just can't believe the guy had the balls to hold him while his mother is dying... cop or otherwise, you are just a complete douche bag of a human being... I don't care how many red lights someone ran.
