I think the last Raider QB to win a SB was NE franchise QB who they picked up off the scrap heep after he was unloaded as a bust to the 49er's where he couldn't get off the bench on a bad team.
Jim Plunkett was the number 1 Pick in the entire draft by the Patriots in 1971. So he had the talent but had the misfortunate of going to a bad team. See steve Young. AL Davis let him recover from the beating he took in New England and regain his confidence. You don't go Number 1 overrall if they don't consider you a franchsie Qb. Now how does that apply to the Jet situation. Nobody in their right minds consider K Clemens 6'1(barely) or B Ratcliffe franchise type QBs. You can try to convince yourself like Jets fans have done for countless years that either one of these can be longterm answer. Just be prepared to be dissapointed again. Maybe next year when you have a chance to get Bradford , your FO will have the courage to take a chance.
So what you are saying is that the importance of the QB position encouraged the Raiders to make a guy who would later be arrested for meth possession while skateboarding the team's "franchise QB"? The Jets have a lot to learn from the Raiders.
Actually Clemens was a very highly rated QB coming out of what was considered a great QB draft. He slipped to the second round because of a broken leg in College. They guy has the quickest release of any of the QB's drafted that year, a much better than average NFL arm, the highest wonderlic score of any QB drafted that year. You simply are talking out of your ass as usuall. You don't have a clue about talent you haven't been right about a single player in years of reading your posts. You should stick to over evaluating the Raiders talent than smashing the talent on the Jets. I'm sure you're delighted to see Russell developing into the 4th best QB in the AFC West. I'm willing to wait and see if Clemens is going to develop into the 4th best QB in the AFC East before I get on his bandwagon.
T Marinovich went somewhere in the twentys. I don't think anyone considered him a franchise QB. HOw many years have the Jets been more concerned with drafting Character guys than drafting the best talent. You miss out on Dan Marinos. But you end up with the Ken Obriens. Chad Pennington is perfect example. Probably the guy everyone mother would want there daughter to marry, but who has some severe limitations as a QB. Again this is the offseason and I don't want to ruin your fantasy . Keep believing ratcliffe or Clemens could be the answer. JMO I think you have better chance of winning Mega Millions.
I understand a lot of the posts here being against an open competition in TC. But I don't think either of the guys should just being handed the job. I would feel much better if the first 1/2 of TC they let them compete for the top spot. Who ever does the best job gets the top spot and the other guy will have had some extra reps so that as backup he is prepared.
I agree, Raider have their franchise LT in JaMarcus Russell, now if they ever find their franchise QB they may win more then 5 games one year in the future.
That highly rated QB K Clemens has been surpassed BY an Undrafted FA Brett ratcliffe in your FO eyes. NOw what does that tell you about K Clemens. The guy looked so bad last year in the preseason and in Camp , that Pennington was running away with the JOB. ( Ratcliffe was blowing him away) Again you want to dispute any of this. Don't let facts get in the way with your post. K Clemens will be lucky to be still on the Jets Roster next year . Again I hope K Clemens or Bret Ratcliffe is starting when Jets come to Oakland. Jets are coming home with a loss but the beating will just be alot worse.
let's see...first of all, you predicted that Revis would never reach a pro bowl. Well done, Copernicus. Swing and a miss..STRIKE ONE secondly...you're trying to convince people what you think you know about franchise QB's, when really...your team hasn't mustered a .500 record in years. Caught the corner..STRIKE TWO and lastly, you repeatedly posted that signing DeAngelo Hall was the greatest thing to happen to the Raiders since John Madden....yet, a rookie wideout made swiss cheese out of Hall in week 1 and then the Raiders cut his ass later in the year. Caught looking...STRIKE THREE! take a seat on the pine, doofus...people are getting tired of the bullshit sandwich you've been serving here on a daily basis.
Your first paragraph is totally pull it out of the interweeb ass. Pennington was outright cut he wasn't beating anyone for anything. The year before Brett was looking great in preseason against scrubs, Clemens looked miles better than Pennington in preseason and didn't beat out Pennington. The fact that Jets management had enough confidence to put Ratliff in preseason games this year doesn't mean they like him better than Clemens. It may well be that Ratliff has great potential as does the Raiders QB. Potential as you well know better than any poster on this board means squat.
Odds are against them being a long term answer, but not impossible. Some undrafted QB's of importance..Kurt Warner, Tony Romo, Jake Delhomme, or Warren Moon. some First round flops... Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, ugh, I hate to bring this name up, Rick Mirer, you get the idea.
Winston if you look at how Plunkett progressed idk...I could see a parrallel with Carr. He took a BEATING on terrible Texan teams then couldnt get off the bench for a bad Carolina team.
He was the second QB drafted in the 1991 draft. The Raiders could have chosen any of about 100 or so Div. I QBs, and they chose a guy who played less than 16 total games in the NFL and is one of the biggest busts in NFL history. What does that say about the Raiders? And since Clemens is still in the NFL and will be competing for a job next year (rather than being run out of the league after one failed season as a starter), isn't it clear that Clemens was a much better pick than Marinovich? We both know that the Raiders chose him with their first pick because the Raiders believed that he was a franchise-quality QB. Stop trying to rewrite history.
Here are Jets QB preseason numbers. K Clemens did play against scrubs too and it didn't matter he still look horrible. Player Att Comp Yds Comp % Yds/Att TD TD % INT INT % Long Sck Sack/Lost Rating Brett Ratliff 47 32 499 68.1 10.6 4 8.5 1 2.1 71 1 8 122.6 Kellen Clemens 38 21 195 55.3 5.1 0 0.0 0 0.0 34 1 1 69.5 Brett Favre 18 14 144 77.8 8.0 1 5.6 0 0.0 30 2 18 118.5 Erik Ainge 16 10 131 62.5 8.2 1 6.3 0 0.0 39 4 31 109.1 NOw if you read every training camp papers and Internet report. They all had the same theme. HOw bad K Clemens was looking in camp(we know how bad he looked in preseason) Again im making it up and I will be happy to produce it as I can easily google this. Jets don't trade for Favre and Pennington was the QB. Jets believe K Clemens was the answer there is no need to go for broke with Brett favre.
This whole discussion is a huge digression, so I don't want to do anything to propel it on, but ftr I would think it more fair to say the Raiders took a gamble on Marinovich, for sure, but it was really his behavior after he was signed that was the reason he was a failure. Yes, the argument is there that the Raiders should not have taken that risk, but the guy had loads of talent, and if he had done his part the pick would have turned out far differently. Wow, who knew we'd ever be talking about Marinovich again? Having done that, though, why the discussion comparing the Jets and Raiders? It seems kind of pointless, but don't let that stop anyone...
Why are you comparing K Clemens to Todd Marinovich. How is that relevant to the topic. Now you want to compare Todd Marinovich to Browning Nagle(remember the preseason he had against vanilla defenses) Lets go. Here Browning nagle. stats. Glossary · ProBowl(*), 1st-team All-Pro(+), · CSV · PRE · GameLog · 100/300/100 Year Age Tm Pos G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 1991 23 NYJ 1 0 1 2 50.0 10 0 0.0 0 0.0 10 5.0 5.0 10.0 10.0 64.6 0 0 5.0 5.0 0.0 1992 24 NYJ QB 14 13 3-10-0 192 387 49.6 2280 7 1.8 17 4.4 51 5.9 4.1 11.9 162.9 55.7 27 215 5.0 3.3 6.5 1993 25 NYJ 3 0 6 14 42.9 71 0 0.0 0 0.0 18 5.1 5.1 11.8 23.7 58.9 3 21 2.9 2.9 17.6 1994 26 IND 1 1 1-0-0 8 21 38.1 69 0 0.0 1 4.8 23 3.3 1.1 8.6 69.0 27.7 2 18 2.2 0.3 8.7 1996 28 ATL 5 0 6 13 46.2 59 1 7.7 2 15.4 17 4.5 -1.6 9.8 11.8 45.5 4 20 2.3 -2.4 23.5 Career 24 14 4-10-0 213 437 48.7 2489 8 1.8 20 4.6 51 5.7 3.8 11.7 103.7 53.5 36 274 4.7 2.9 7.6 3 yrs NYJ 18 13 3-10-0 199 403 49.4 2361 7 1.7 17 4.2 51 5.9 4.1 11.9 131.2 55.9 30 236 4.9 3.3 6.9 1 yr ATL 5 0 6 13 46.2 59 1 7.7 2 15.4 17 4.5 -1.6 9.8 11.8 45.5 4 20 2.3 -2.4 23.5 1 yr IND 1 1 1-0-0 8 21 38.1 69 0 0.0 1 4.8 23 3.3 1.1 8.6 69.0 27.7 2 18 2.2 0.3 8.7 Marinovich Season Team Passing Rushing Fumbles G GS Comp Att Pct Yds Avg TD Int Sck SckY Rate Att Yds Avg TD FUM Lost 1992 Los Angeles Raiders 7 7 81 165 49.1 1,102 6.7 5 9 20 154 58.2 9 30 3.3 0 4 2 1991 Los Angeles Raiders 1 1 23 40 57.5 243 6.1 3 0 0 0 100.3 3 14 4.7 0 -- -- TOTAL 104 205 50.7 1,345 6.6 8 9 20 154 66.4 12 44 3.7 0 4 2 Okay they both sucked. At Least Raiders drafting Marinovich was payment for Marv Marinovich over the years taking their projects and training them to become accomplished at other positions.(T Christenson and Ethan Horton) You do know Marv Marinovisch is one of the best trainers. He currently L tomlinson personal trainer.
Here is what Im answering. Again this is Jet discussion , so I im staying on topic. This is the post Im responding too. Originally Posted by MBGreen let's see...first of all, you predicted that Revis would never reach a pro bowl. Well done, Copernicus. Swing and a miss..STRIKE ONE secondly...you're trying to convince people what you think you know about franchise QB's, when really...your team hasn't mustered a .500 record in years. Caught the corner..STRIKE TWO and lastly, you repeatedly posted that signing DeAngelo Hall was the greatest thing to happen to the Raiders since John Madden....yet, a rookie wideout made swiss cheese out of Hall in week 1 and then the Raiders cut his ass later in the year. Caught looking...STRIKE THREE! take a seat on the pine, doofus...people are getting tired of the bullshit sandwich you've been serving here on a daily basis.
