Favre at 40 without evidence that he isn't finished isn't selling any PSL's. You buy tickets to the next game if you want to see Favre before he retires. You don't plunk down 20G's to have the right to see the jets for the next 20 years based on that.
It also shows a willingness on Woody Johnson's part to do whatever he feels necessary to get wins. For far too long, Leon Hess (God rest him and I did so love the guy from a personal standpoint) put up with less than stellar coaches for the sake of "continuity." Were Hess still the owner, Mangini would probably have been here for the next 10 years. But Woody is a next generation owner. And this isn't the first time we've seen him step in and shake things up. Herm was abysmal,,, give this kid Mangini a chance. Well, the kid had 3 years and went .500. Not good enough, according to Woody, and I go along with that. I know Woody's extremely unpopular in some circles around here (I'm not totally thrilled with the PSL situation either), but I'd rather have an owner who at least takes a shot at bringing in better talent than sitting on his hands and sipping his martinis at game time, content to go home season after season with possible Wild Card bids from a little help from rivals. Screw that. All or nothing. I've waited 40 years too many to sit around and give people a chance after 3 years. You either have it or you don't. Fourth and One on the Bills' 2-YL and you've run the ball real well with a guy who averages 5 YPC and you kick a stinking field goal? Much too conservative for these old eyes.
I usually respect your opinions Sec227, but I doubt after his (and the team's collapse) that Favre really has that much marketing cache especially since he won't be here by the time the new stadium is built.
True, but you don't plunk down 20 Large to watch Kellen Clemens stink up the joint either. Whjo else is out there? Rex Grossman? Seriously, we've painted ourselves into a corner with our QB situation... I talked about this incessantly this past summer. We're no closer to getting a Joe Flacco than we were a year ago. So no, I think Woody wants Favre here (for now) because who else is going to sell the PSLs? Ratliff?
Job curve? Groceries? Mangini getting the shaft? Belichick at Cleveland? Mangini is not even CLOSE to being a victim. Doug brien missed 2 chip shots in Pittsburgh. Result? Loss of employment. Mangini went 1-4 [a very lucky 1] in his 3rd year against back ups and sub .500 teams. Result? Loss of employment. His involvement in who came to New York is irrelevant. His involvement in their performance is VERY relevant. Once the Jets run defense [Kris Jenkins] was verified as legit, the Jets weaknesses were exposed. Mangini helped that process along by not making adjustments. For example: In New England, the Patriots have Randy Moss. As a DC do you give him single coverage? Never. Knowing this, the OC calls his plays KNOWING that at least 2 players on any given defense will be committed to Moss. To help that process, the OC says "let's go to a 5 wide shotgun formation!". Why? Because the blitz is easier to read, and there will be 5 linemen committed to protecting Tom Brady at all times. The best part is this: Man coverage against 5 wide shotgun means that 2 people are assigned to Moss, and 4 are matched up against the other receivers. This leaves only 5 people to rush the quarterback or be in additional coverage assignments. This is called playing to your strengths and creating matchups nightmares. The New York football Giants were successful because they could get pressure with their front four defensive linemen, starters AND backups. I could write a very, very long post on the offensive personnel for the top teams in the NFL, but let's look at the Jets. New York Jets: Power running attack. Speedy tight end. Speedy halfback. Why did we stop spreading the field and creating better matchups for our offense? Coaching. Power defensive line and linebackers. Suspect secondary. Dictate the tempo by putting faster personnel on the field to blitz, safeties, use the 4-6, constantly show 8-in-the box, show overload blitzes but actually use coverage, there are a number of ways to use our personnel. Good coaching would have shown that. Like winning 11 games with your back up quarterback or rookie quarterback, or winning games with a back up offensive line and back up quarterback.
I think there's a helluva a lot going on here than meets the eye. Hear me out: Woody talks to Cowher several weeks ago to feel him out. Cowher calls him back and says, "I'd consider coming there but I want to hand pick my own DC and OC. And oh, by the way, unless you're planning on bringing in somebody other than Clemens and Ratliff for your QBs, I'd really prefer to have Favre behind center for the first year so I can hand pick somebody else to groom. Don't worry about the INTs, I'll talk to the son of a bitch my way, if you know what I mean." Might not be too far from reality.
I agree 100%. If the Jets had Pennington, Trent Edwards, Flacco-heck maybe even Aaron Rodgers I think they win 11 or 12 games. I still like Favre, but obviously he single-handedly ruined the season. When they won he did decent and when they lost he played terrible. I don't know any real stats on this, but I doubt any team who's qb lead the league in int's has ever made the playoffs. 9-7 with how terrible Favre played is actually pretty darn good.
I'd buy that. At this point, no one should be against our main objective: to win a superbowl. If Cowher gets it done, then great! Mangini made too many coaching mistakes that showed he wasn't ready. Nothing like lighting a fire under someone's ass to get the best out of them. Besides, if you are an HC then you don't need time to grow into your position. You should be ready from the gate.
Proportionately, no, I don't think many other jobs allow such a wide berth for failure during training. But, unless you work for Al Davis, Eric Mangini will get paid for the full term of his contract, winning or losing notwithstanding. His job ISN'T performance-based. His contract renewal and future employment is. The burden should be on the coach to produce wins, not the organization to allow growth. If all he did this year beat two more teams - teams with 2-14 and a 4-12 records, respectively - Eric would have most likely been offered a contract extension - another four year term (probably), and another $8-10 million (perhaps) where his income wasn't tied to success or failure. Two games would have probably done it. Mangini was, by all accounts, a nothing-special coordinator for a single year in New England. Hindsight tells us that we weren't able to catch lightning in a bottle, and he wasn't the best choice for head coach. He'll make his money, he'll get a new job somewhere else, and everyone moves on. The average coaching tenure in the NFL is around four years. He chose that profession, not me.
You want better coaching. Favre is not at fault. Favre can't generate a pass rush, Favre can't explain Pennington's, Flacco's, or anyone else's emergence this year. But BETTER COACHING can!
Absolutely! But, I would like to add that his job was performance based. Belichick, Cowher, Fisher, and Dungy are able to establish a style of play that allows for losing seasons, or slow starts. The mere fact that we mention these coaches means that we admire their methodology. Mangini did not do that.
A good defensive coordinator should be able to generate a pass rush.. that's part of his job, not the HC's. Pennington and Flacco have nothing do with Jets coaching or success. Our management brought in father time so it's not like Mangini was even given a chance.
Diasgree. Can't teach an old dog (Favre) new tricks. Why would Cowher waste a whole season with a QB on the downside of his career? 40 year ols QB's aren't known for making teams SUper Bowl contenders. I expect nothing less from the Jets to see this attained, especially with a new head coach.
I'm just saying the whole thing smacks of someone powerful in the wings. Firing your HC and then his DC and OC smacks of somebody like a Cowher in the background, somebody forceful. Even Parcells' medling and/or input isn't outside the realm of possibilty. Scott Paoli anyone?
That's a fair question. But consider how he wasted a good chunk of time with Kordell Stewart before lancing that boil. In fairness to Kordell, he did bring them the the AFC Championship game. But when he was bad, there weren't too many worse.
Mangini hired the DC. It is his principles and strategy. The DC is an extension of the HC. The HC is responsible for all of his coordinators. He hired them. Pennington did not have the same success under Mangini that he did with Miami. That's coaching. Miami, Atlanta, and Baltimore have everything to do with the Jet's coaching failures. Rookie coaches but all are headed to the playoffs. None of them were at 8-3 with sub .500 teams occupying 90% of their remaining schedule. Beating New England and Tennessee on their home turfs means that you have raised expectations. Losing to backups in Seattle is unacceptable. Going 1 [a lucky 1] and 4 in the remaining 5 games and playing with NO PASSION is unforgiveable. Yes ANYTHING is possible, but Mangini was a gamble that didn't pay off.
YES! And you know this because you guided a football team to a Super Bowl! All by yourself! And you know Mangini was a great coach because he lost every single important game down the stretch of the season this year! And he also proved he was a great coach by going 4-12 last year! I hope the Jets braintrust listens to you, above all the other Jets fans who (like me) called for Mangini's head, since you are onto something the rest of us somehow missed. Obviously, spending several millions of dollars on free agents and bringing in the greatest QB of all time and then watching the worst collapse in Jets team history doesn't matter to you... You must enjoy losing or something. Maybe we can rehire Rich Kotite?
Before the start of his second year the Giants told Parcells that if he didn't have a winning season he would be fired. That seemed to work out.
