Exaaaaactly. I'm willing to bet that if a coach had the chance to coach any team based on the way the franchise, media, and fans would treat them...anyone would pick the Steelers. That franchise knows how to get it's coaches comfortable, and already has a long standing reputation as one that takes winning seriously. Cowher would be taking over a pretty cushy job here...everyone would automatically love him anyway...the franchise is obviously TRYING to win...the GM is smart as hell...but let him fuck up just once and he'll see the true colors of Jets fans. Thats just how it is here, and a HC has to be sure he's ready to deal with that. Mangini handles it about as well as any HC we've had lately...and he's already seen and put up with the shit anyway...what makes us think Cowher would have such a smooth life here if he went and lost an AFC Championship game with another man's roster?
How likely do you see it that he lasts 15 years here? We can't even guarantee a coach 5 years as a fan base. Shit, this Mangini fellow doesn't even have 3 seasons in yet and some people already have him halfway out the door. And who's to say that if Mangini were given a whole 15 years he couldn't do what Cowher did? Cause he hasn't done it yet?
He had LeBeau for less than half the years he was there, and he was immediately successful. In his first 6 years he had 5 division championships, 3 AFC Championship appearances and 1 Superbowl appearance. So despite the fact that he took over a franchise that hadn't done anything in 10+ years, immediately made them successful, and maintained success over 15 years, you give him no credit. It's all because the franchise trusted him. That makes sense to me. His football beliefs? What are you even asking? What are Mangini's beliefs? All I care about is winning, and that's what he does. I don't give a FUCK what his "football beliefs" are. Why would a fan care about that? His teams win and play consistently at a very high level. Please don't pretend like Tom Brady and Kurt Warner should be mentioned in the same breath as Tommy Maddux, Neil O'Donnell and Kordell Stewart. That's a stupid ass argument. Brady is a first ballot HOF'r and Warner has a shot at the HOF too. The '00 Ravens had one of the best defenses EVER, the QB play was obviously not a big factor for that team. I cannot for the life of me figure out how you can defend Mangini until your blue in the face, while simultaneously writing off Cowhers extremely successful track record. That does not make sense in my book.
it didn't take a miracle, his teams weren't good enough to win it all. He had Kordell Stewart and Neil O'Donnell at QB. He gets Ben Rothlisberger and wins it all. His defenses were always amazing though. He ran into some pretty tough team in those AFC games. The 90's Bills, Elways Broncos, the Dallas dynasty, Parcells and Belichick's Patriots. He never had the team to dominate those great teams. He finally got one against Holmgren's Seattle team, which some people thought had a shot to beat Pittsburgh. But he is a good coach because every year you had a shot. Forget the "choke jobs." You never thought a year was a "down year" with Cowher. Thats why I like him. I'm not crazy about him coming here as a savior, but I like him.
He doesn't have to last 15 years here. You seem to think that just because it took him 15 years to win one SB, it has to take 15 more years to win another. That's just dumb. You continue to ignore the fact that his team was a superbowl contender almost every year and he made SIX conference championships including 3 in his first 6 years as a coach. Mangini hasn't done anything even close to what Cowher did in his first 3 years in Pittsburgh. There is zero comparison between these two coaches. You seem to think that if you give Mangini 15 years he will somehow have the same success as Cowher simply because the franchise believes in him. Well guess what, he now has 12 years to try and do what Cowher did and he's WAYYYY behind the curve.
That's such bogus. An AFCC game appearance every 2.5 seasons is ridiculous. The Ravens contended with a shit QB once. The Pats did it with a guy who soon developed into one of the best ever. Kurt Warner was a great QB. Cowher consistently contended with Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnel, and Tommy Maddox. Give me a break. That you called Mangini to Cowher a 'lateral move' is a complete joke. No coach in the history of the game has been as consistently successful as Cowher.
Cowher inspires confidence in everyone with his mannerisms and great enthusiasm and fire. Find me the evidence of Mangini doing that in his tenure here without some sort of medium such as a boxing tape. Cowher wins that argument... and what I've presented isn't new news or impressive arguing.
Sounds like the same success rate as our QB - 1 SB. By the way, Mike Holmgren, Dan Reeves and Dick Vermeil are more coaches who took multiple teams to the SB.
Nice. Like you said before...whats that got to do with us? I'm not giving him no credit. I'm just skeptical of those giving him too much (IMO) credit. You know how I'm called a blind fan of the Jets? Right now, I think the blind love for Bill Cowher is just fans not being able to handle losing that well. And I'm sure his teams never had a bad 4 game stretch...you know what separates the Steelers from other franchises? Cowher had the kind of stretch from '98-'00 that the Jets and their fans would probably have forced him out the door for. He won just 22 games to 26 losses. They stuck it out, and he gave them 1 losing season the rest of his time there. And football beliefs matter alot to me since you know...he'll be coaching a football team. If all you care about is winning then you'd stay focused on winning and not firing everyone and their mother for having a bad 4 game stretch. I realize you don't have "confidence" in Mangini, but no one has confidence in anyone when they're doing bad...the Steelers kept their faith in Cowher not slipping as a coach and it paid off. Thats what smart franchises do...they don't fucking duck, cover, and fire everytime something goes wrong. I'd say Jets fans need to learn this...but they won't til they see some success because I know like .00001% of the fan base will even truly try to understand what I'm saying when I say this shit. And Warner and Brady could easily have ended up like Maddox and Stewart....happens all the time. Maddox was a first round pick, and at one point Stewart was considered one of the best talents on the Steelers. These weren't shit talents, they were talents that just fell off or didn't work out over a full career. REAL magic would have been turning them into long term starters. Anyone can fuckin strike lightning in a bottle like that. Even ignoring that...the Steelers O was based around Bettis pounding the shit out of defenses anyway. Step one would be to understand that I'm not writing off anything about Cowher's track record. What he did, he did. I can't change that. What I'm challenging is what's so special about what he did given the circumstances and time he had to do it.
In '06 Mangini inspired confidence with his work ethic, mannerisms, intelligence, passion, enthusiasm, and fire. Cowher "inspires confidence" because people know where he's been, and therefore they assume that he can easily go there again. Me...I'll stand by the fact that it's a waste of money unless Mangini has lost control of the locker room. All you guys are doing is kicking while he's down, and then throwing out cliche words like fire...desire...passion...and saying he doesn't have it...makes 0 sense to me.
It has nothing to do with us, it has to do with Cowhers proven track record to be very successful as an NFL head coach. You don't seem to be giving him any credit. You basically gave all the credit to the organization for trusting him as if that was the only reason for his great success. It's not blind love, it's easy to have faith in someone with a proven track record. If we had the opportunity to pickup Peyton Manning, would you call it blind love because we can't describe his "football beliefs" and can only point to his track record? Shit, he lost in the playoffs a lot, better stay away from that guy. His bad stretch came after great success. When someone proves they can be extremely successful you tend to give them more rope. You don't blindly give someone that extra rope just because you saw it work for someone else who had been extremely successful prior to that. Again, he had the track record prior to the slack. No, we understand what you're saying, it's just that 99.99999999% disagree with ignoring all problems and being patient because it worked for other people who had great success first. You don't just stay patient with someone without paying attention to how they are performing and how the performed in the past. It's not as black and white as you try and paint it. They did start for a long time and won a lot of games. How many games did they win as a QB when they left the Steelers? They aren't half the talent that Brady or Warner are. OK, your point? Maybe one of Cowhers "football beliefs" is to commit to the running game ... something our current staff can't seem to figure out. If you don't get what's special about what he has done in this league then no one can help you out on this one.
I KNOW Cowher has a proven track record. I also know we've had a guy who's been building this team for 3 years now and has significant improved it since then. 4 games isn't enough to make me forget what the Jets looked like when Mangini got them, and what they look like now. Well you have to give an organization credit for sticking through hard times with its choice as HC...which the Steelers did with Noll...Cowher from '98-'00...I don't think a HC does anything by himself in the end...and almost every HC requires a leap of faith...Bill Cowher was not born a great anything is what I'm saying...and it's not easy to just replicate success like that. Peyton Mannning IMO is going to leave the NFL as the best pure passer I've ever seen. Also, Manning would fit an organizational need (QB)...I've yet to give up on our current HC. Huge difference there. You mean like...Mangini...has had...it's not like the guy isn't going to have 2 winning seasons out of 3 whether he makes the playoffs or not this year...thats success, no? Nah, probably not. It's only successful with it's another teams coach doing it. Heres another way to look at it: Cowher had already been coaching for 6 seasons...not won a Super Bowl yet...and his teams fell apart for a 3 year run...I'm pretty sure in Jets land thats more than worthy of a firing. They stuck through, they got results. And they took the leap of faith it took to believe that he could get back there again. I'm the guy trying to NOT paint shit as black and white. Based on performance, Mangini has locked himself two winning seasons in his first two seasons...one playoff appearance with the potential for two...why is this getting ignored? Cause you're already dead set on firing him and bringing in someone "proven." Plus, I think the keys to any smart business (and a team is a business) is commitment. Yea, I guess I can concede to you this point...though I think you underrate just how highly touted Kordell Stewart was in this league early in his career. And yet we have one of the leagues leading rushers and are 16th in attempts and 9th in yards...in a year where we traded for a great QB. Not to mention that the Steelers committed to the running game as a franchise long before they had Cowher...just as they did with the 3-4 D... OK...but my issue is what does his past have to do with his and our future? He'd have to adjust to a new team, new franchise, new city, new fans...what new coordinators would he bring with him? Which one of those guys in Pittsburgh is loyal enough to leave their jobs there to come here? What would he actually do here? I'm not even saying that Cowher can't be fine here...I just think it's a dumb, lateral move that'll later get spun into "Woody just wanted to sell PSLs" if it failed.
^ There is a massive difference between making the playoffs as a wildcard and losing the wildcard game and going to 3 AFC Championships and one Superbowl. Sorry if you don't see the difference. IF the Jets make the playoffs this season maybe we can revisit this. Leaving for the parents. Merry Christmas.
Oh no doubt there is...but you can't tell me that he wouldn't be hearing "washed up" around these parts if he had 3 seasons like he did from '98-'00 here. My point is that they stuck it out and got rewarded. Most franchise IMO would have just ducked out right there. Enjoy, Merry Christmas to you and yours, and thanks for keeping the debate sensible.
Theres 21 other guys on the field. The Steelers are the original "complimentary football" franchise. They ran the ball down your throat, and mauled you on D to win that Super Bowl.
Ditto...lets stick with Mangini...every SB winning team has a story...and very rarely is it because the HC is a genius...Parcells/BB are aberrations very rarely does that ever happen...you win with either/or a good defensive and offensive team/coordinator,great players,luck and a HC who brings it all together...in other words a lot of things have to fall in place... This organization looks to be building very well compared to the past..and its Mangini/MT who are responsible for that....give them time before unleashing the lynch mob...
DWare has raised some bad points (how many coaches get an opportunity to make super bowls with multiple teams? dumb) but he's also right that Bill Cowher might be a little overrated. The Steelers had an excellent front office those years and he always had a solid team. Also, if you don't like Schottenheimer's Conservatism, wait till you see Cowher. Remember, he's a product of Marty Schottenheimer, an awfully frustrating coach. I think he's more likely than not a good coach who motivates his players well, but will frustrate you with running to much. However, this team desperately needs an identity, and Cowher would probably give us one, even if it's a conservative one. I am mixed on the whole thing, and wouldn't be to excited if we hired him. If Mangini keeps his job, which wouldn't kill me, he better hire a new OC and DC.
I'll admit my 2 Super Bowl point is weak as hell, even I only kind of believed it. Still, it's really not easy to do. Cowher has already built himself a solid career in this league, and he's accomplished everything a HC could want to accomplish in the NFL. You have to wonder how much fire would be there, and how strong that fire would be considering coaching in the NY/NJ area requires so much more than just a strong chin. Plus, he's a family man whose daughters are going to school now. I could see him not wanting to coach for a few years anyway, if he even wants to coach again at all.
I don't see us getting Cowher. Apparently he wants full control of personnel decisions, which isn't likely to happen unless Tannenbaum gets fired. He's been a good GM, so I wouldn't fire him just to get a guy like Cowher here. Who knows how good Cowher would be as GM? My prediction is that Mangini stays and brings abroad a new coaching staff, just like Coughlin did in 2007.
