Can I reply to that? Certainly it is the kick ass FB team that is why you win games not fans cheering & rooting
Honestly sir... Both. The mentality for both also were coming together at the same time... but the argument for who was more confident in who is an interesting one.
You can't underestimate the power of suggestion. But the fact is the Jets kick ass, and that's my final answer. Think about it though, if you keep hearing how much you suck, sooner or later it will have a negative effect.
The one constant I have seen in watching football and sports in general, big wins on the road are usually the result of superior play by the team and rarely impacted by fan belief.
The NYJs should get criticized for bad play. That's always a fan's prerogative. We're paying for all this. But the problem is when you take a bad play and extrapolate about the whole team and the whole season, et al. The reason they play the game is that there is always hope. Did anybody see the Oakland Raiders (of Tom Cable fame) decimate the team in their own home that we're hosting next Sunday? I mean, the Raiders stomped them out. Surprise surprise. Good judgment and foresight is not the same thing as noticing after the fact when a play has gone badly. This CS and FO has done a great job this off season and this season is going just swell. I don't know what I thought the NYJs would be doing by week 12, but I have to say I am thrilled with the way they are playing and where they've taken themselves in the AFC East as of today. Yesterday's game was more fun than the Monday Night Miracle for me, because it means something beyond the game. The unbeaten is beaten. By us. We still lead the AFC East, even though NE whipped Miami. Everybody on the NYJs had a hand in winning this game. Lowery had a couple of successful passes defensed while he spelled Ty who was having a leg cramp. Gholston got a couple of special teams tackles, and actually chased Kerry out of the pocket...! And little bitty Leon Washington of Fla.State fame -- a hesitate and then a take-off just stunned the Titans once again. And also, again and again, here comes Jenkins, so God Help You!
The only reason I believe in fan belief is that I do not want the "oh god, when is it going to go wrong" mentality to ever return... When the collective fanbase does think that way, things do seem to go bad. Teams feed off their fanbase (Steelers, Cowboys, Giants). If the Jets can be that way, I think that this franchise can sustain success for a long period of time. We do make an impact.
Someone telling me I suck or that I'm great has no impact on the reality of my performance in a competition. There are many highly successful people whose biggest motivation is fear of failure that is deeply set in their makeup by the suggestion of failure. The converse of that is the silly idea that we are all going to succeed because other people believe in you. I would suggest to you that fear of failure or sucking as you put it might be a much bigger motivator than belief in success? My guess is there is deep satisfaction in success and proving that you can do it but that fear and worry is an equal part of that success in most people who aren't totally self absorbed and are comfortable enough to admit it. I would bet that at home games there is a certain amount of adrenalin that may impact a handful of plays during certain situations. On the road talent, execution and will wins how belief by others impact execution and will would be highly difficult to measure. The bandwagon like the entourage of “True Believers” is a spoil of success but does not impact it one way or another. That is the real beauty of competition and sports in general.
Good too hear from you, but I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to call you on things. Though I'm not normally into this "eat crow" stuff much personally, but I also can't just stand by and let this revisionist characterization of what you were saying pass without comment. That thread you created that's linked into my sig was from week three, not week seven (when we were 3-3), and your point, as clearly indicated in your own words quoted in my sig, was not that this was an otherwise great football team ruined by a sucky washed up QB (as you're characterizing it today), but that the whole team sucked -- "The New York Jets are not a professional team right now" are your exact words. There was none of this "this is a team I expect to win 11, 12, 13 games" like you are claiming "I have said all season" today! Below is what you were really saying back then:
I certainly laid waste to the entire team in this thread. But there were many others. we're I have said that I expected that with Pennington yet another year removed from his latest injury/surgery, that I fully expected the Jets to win at least 10 and make the playoffs, and that by bringing in Favre, the team set a higher expectation. Is that not fair? The Jets were 10-6 the year before. In 2007, they ripped out a key cog from the offensive line by playing spiteball with Kendall...a death blow the offense never recovered from. And they once again failed to put a NT in place to play the 3-4 defense. Going into August 2008, the Jets had finally fully equipped the defense with a suitable NT, and replaced 3/5ths of the line with much better players. There was no reason to believe that Pennington couldn't at least duplicate his 10-6 of the year before with another last place schedule. So, when you make a decision to cut your team leader to bring in a player of a higher caliber, it's reasonable to expect that the team will now perform even better. And then they didn't...they lost games to New England and San Diego, while Pennington was helping them win games against those teams. I spewed forth, damning the entire team, its true. What were you thinking at that time? If you were OK with it, then good for you. My standards are obviously higher. Obviously, they have magnificently turned it around and now I'm enjoying my plate of crow. If they play smart and tough and get beaten by a better opponent, I won't like it, but I can accept it. But when they didn't, they deserve to get criticized. I criticized when the effort/performance was lacking (what were you saying following the loss to Oakland?), and I am praising now that they've turned it around. Guess what...I'm still counting on at least 11 or 12 wins, and a run to the championship game. 40 years is too long a wait...I deserve a Super Bowl, so do you and so does everybody else. There are on the right track now, let's hope they stay there and get a little luck along the way.
Well, Winnie, you have your opinion and I have mine. Though, I think if you were correct, there would be no such thing as "mental abuse" I think talent and hard work override all, but to dismiss the constant influx of negativity as something you can shrug off, would be ignorant at best. No I'm not calling you ignorant.....if you believe what you said, then you could possibly be, but that's for those who know you to judge, not me.
Players always say the crowd is a benefit to the home team. So wouldn't you think a negative crowd is a detriment?
I tend to agree with you. There is a reason the Jets have been more effective on the road than at home in recent years, and I think the fans are part of it. When we've had really good teams--1985 and 1998 come to mind--and the fans have really lined up behind the team, our home field advantage has been awesome. Every other year it has been almost non-existent.
I was thinking -- and posting, often in reply to you, echoing what many others were saying -- the exact same thing I'm thinking now, and was thinking in the preseason prediction thread. That the Jets should be expected to start out looking rough, needing time to adjust to all the changes, but will hopefully get better as the season progresses, and that the template for any success this year would probably be the 2007 Giants: an ugly start morphing into a strong finish. I was hardly the only one saying this, or that you were calling "fucking ludicrous" for saying it. It didn't seem that difficult to imagine it going down that way to me, but others had more difficulty I guess, and they were VERY strident about insisting that it should not even be given a chance to see if it could happen. I think it was you that said we should throw in the towel on the 2008 season completely and just take losses in order to develop QB experience for 2009, wasn't it?
i'll be the 1st to admith that i rip the jets a brand new anus if i feel its deserved....... that comes from 30+ years of being a true fan and even being employed by the club during 90 and 91 and seeing up close the cluster %%*$$& that can go on with this club...... however , i can be as optomistic as the next guy and have proven it - starting from before the bills game and continuing to today and hopefully alot further. the team has produced in a big way - not seen in this fashion since 1998. jil
